1 00:00:05,749 --> 00:00:03,590 what's up everybody thanks for joining 2 00:00:08,690 --> 00:00:05,759 me on this wonderful Friday afternoon 3 00:00:10,490 --> 00:00:08,700 it's a bonus episode if you're familiar 4 00:00:13,370 --> 00:00:10,500 with witness citizen we tend to only 5 00:00:15,950 --> 00:00:13,380 have about one episode a week 6 00:00:19,550 --> 00:00:15,960 so you're probably wondering what's 7 00:00:22,670 --> 00:00:19,560 going on why another episode I don't 8 00:00:24,830 --> 00:00:22,680 understand is this good is this bad I 9 00:00:27,769 --> 00:00:24,840 have no idea well it's a good thing we 10 00:00:30,349 --> 00:00:27,779 have Graham Rendell a wonderful author 11 00:00:33,229 --> 00:00:30,359 wonderful author and we're celebrating a 12 00:00:36,770 --> 00:00:33,239 new book release from him today 13 00:00:39,889 --> 00:00:36,780 um he's got he's is really just written 14 00:00:44,569 --> 00:00:39,899 up a storm here he's got UFOs uh before 15 00:00:48,110 --> 00:00:44,579 Roswell European Foo Fighters 16 00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:48,120 45 40 to 45 he's also got the dawn of 17 00:00:54,610 --> 00:00:51,360 the flying saucers uh aerial UFO 18 00:00:59,090 --> 00:00:54,620 encounters and official investigations 19 00:01:01,910 --> 00:00:59,100 46-49 he's got Flying Saucer fever uh 20 00:01:03,590 --> 00:01:01,920 Ariel UFO encounters 50 to 52 and this 21 00:01:07,789 --> 00:01:03,600 next book is 22 00:01:10,789 --> 00:01:07,799 uh a doozy and I was very lucky and I 23 00:01:13,550 --> 00:01:10,799 was able to write the forward for it so 24 00:01:15,230 --> 00:01:13,560 um we're gonna be back in just a gif 25 00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:15,240 with Mr Graham 26 00:01:54,670 --> 00:01:16,560 foreign 27 00:02:05,870 --> 00:01:57,470 thank you 28 00:02:11,809 --> 00:02:08,270 that's right I made a very special 29 00:02:16,510 --> 00:02:11,819 opening for our friend today Mr Grandma 30 00:02:19,070 --> 00:02:16,520 Dell how are you I'm fine Vinnie did he 31 00:02:20,390 --> 00:02:19,080 say I've hit the wine already and I'm 32 00:02:21,550 --> 00:02:20,400 just gonna be all over the place I'm 33 00:02:24,350 --> 00:02:21,560 sorry 34 00:02:26,150 --> 00:02:24,360 that's okay it's Friday I'm happy to 35 00:02:28,250 --> 00:02:26,160 hear Sean thanks very much for inviting 36 00:02:30,290 --> 00:02:28,260 me it's great to be and of course you're 37 00:02:31,729 --> 00:02:30,300 a big part of the book anyway so uh it's 38 00:02:34,369 --> 00:02:31,739 slightly natural there I'll speak to you 39 00:02:36,410 --> 00:02:34,379 first yeah well hey I appreciate it you 40 00:02:38,150 --> 00:02:36,420 were very kind and for whatever reason 41 00:02:40,089 --> 00:02:38,160 you must have been really hammered that 42 00:02:42,530 --> 00:02:40,099 day you asked me to write the forward 43 00:02:46,670 --> 00:02:42,540 and I must have been really hammered 44 00:02:49,729 --> 00:02:46,680 because I said yes yeah no but uh it was 45 00:02:51,110 --> 00:02:49,739 uh you know it was um a real treat to be 46 00:02:52,970 --> 00:02:51,120 able to do that so thank you I've 47 00:02:56,750 --> 00:02:52,980 enjoyed your work 48 00:02:59,449 --> 00:02:56,760 um so it was truly a pleasure I'm very 49 00:03:01,309 --> 00:02:59,459 much looking forward to this book being 50 00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:01,319 out there 51 00:03:06,350 --> 00:03:04,200 um you I'm really impressed by let's 52 00:03:09,470 --> 00:03:06,360 start with the cover 53 00:03:13,130 --> 00:03:09,480 yeah what made the cover what is the 54 00:03:16,430 --> 00:03:13,140 deal with the cover well I'm extremely 55 00:03:19,430 --> 00:03:16,440 fortunate to know two very very talented 56 00:03:22,550 --> 00:03:19,440 digital artists uh Dan zestron and Olaf 57 00:03:24,110 --> 00:03:22,560 Rocco now they came together to surprise 58 00:03:26,390 --> 00:03:24,120 me with uh 59 00:03:29,809 --> 00:03:26,400 um the artwork for the Foo Fighters book 60 00:03:31,910 --> 00:03:29,819 uh UFOs before Roswell and since then 61 00:03:34,070 --> 00:03:31,920 they've basically done the artwork for 62 00:03:36,050 --> 00:03:34,080 every one of my UFO books including this 63 00:03:37,490 --> 00:03:36,060 one which is intercept and identified 64 00:03:40,369 --> 00:03:37,500 okay 65 00:03:42,830 --> 00:03:40,379 um and all it is I they asked me to pick 66 00:03:44,390 --> 00:03:42,840 something a case from the book which I'm 67 00:03:46,910 --> 00:03:44,400 you know I'll be happy to have as a 68 00:03:50,149 --> 00:03:46,920 killer I give them the details of the 69 00:03:51,289 --> 00:03:50,159 case and they run with it and I'll hear 70 00:03:53,690 --> 00:03:51,299 from them maybe you know a couple of 71 00:03:56,390 --> 00:03:53,700 months later and they'll quiz me on the 72 00:03:58,369 --> 00:03:56,400 exception markings and the color scheme 73 00:03:59,449 --> 00:03:58,379 of the airplane concerned and some 74 00:04:01,130 --> 00:03:59,459 information about you know more 75 00:04:02,930 --> 00:04:01,140 information about the case just to tie 76 00:04:04,330 --> 00:04:02,940 some details down and then you come out 77 00:04:07,130 --> 00:04:04,340 with something like this which just 78 00:04:09,289 --> 00:04:07,140 encapsulates everything you know you can 79 00:04:11,509 --> 00:04:09,299 sort of think and conceive about the 80 00:04:12,770 --> 00:04:11,519 case itself so you had the you know you 81 00:04:14,690 --> 00:04:12,780 had the picture of the Wellington which 82 00:04:16,330 --> 00:04:14,700 was being chased by the um the the 83 00:04:20,449 --> 00:04:16,340 orange blob 84 00:04:22,370 --> 00:04:20,459 in 1942 then you had a Kenneth Arnold 85 00:04:24,590 --> 00:04:22,380 sighting which was you know really 86 00:04:26,810 --> 00:04:24,600 Faithfully recreated and then you had 87 00:04:29,090 --> 00:04:26,820 the um the Strange Case of the B-36 with 88 00:04:30,770 --> 00:04:29,100 the two discs uh one which was almost 89 00:04:32,870 --> 00:04:30,780 tucked in you know sort of between the 90 00:04:34,730 --> 00:04:32,880 wings and the tail and that was for 91 00:04:36,770 --> 00:04:34,740 flying saucer fever and now you have 92 00:04:39,170 --> 00:04:36,780 this which is James saladin's 93 00:04:41,930 --> 00:04:39,180 um sighting from I think it's November 94 00:04:43,550 --> 00:04:41,940 1954 over the south of England and he 95 00:04:44,870 --> 00:04:43,560 was flying a Gloucester meteor which you 96 00:04:46,189 --> 00:04:44,880 can see there 97 00:04:48,950 --> 00:04:46,199 um and he came across this thing that 98 00:04:50,749 --> 00:04:48,960 well he described it as being like a bun 99 00:04:52,550 --> 00:04:50,759 you know two buns 100 00:04:55,969 --> 00:04:52,560 um you know stuck on top of a either 101 00:04:58,249 --> 00:04:55,979 side of a pie plate so uh yeah very 102 00:05:03,590 --> 00:04:58,259 strange 103 00:05:07,090 --> 00:05:03,600 cases you're right about are all pretty 104 00:05:11,330 --> 00:05:09,950 yeah what does it feel like you know 105 00:05:13,430 --> 00:05:11,340 because 106 00:05:15,469 --> 00:05:13,440 you know I haven't done 107 00:05:17,330 --> 00:05:15,479 um not as much researchers to you but 108 00:05:19,930 --> 00:05:17,340 I've you know I've read a lot of these 109 00:05:25,249 --> 00:05:23,629 thanks but how does it feel to see one 110 00:05:26,990 --> 00:05:25,259 of the cases you spend so much time 111 00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:27,000 studying 112 00:05:30,890 --> 00:05:27,720 um 113 00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:30,900 you know be put into art is it something 114 00:05:35,390 --> 00:05:32,000 that yeah 115 00:05:36,830 --> 00:05:35,400 is it better you know yeah well you have 116 00:05:38,689 --> 00:05:36,840 your I mean you'll have your own 117 00:05:40,610 --> 00:05:38,699 everybody has their own kind of you know 118 00:05:42,110 --> 00:05:40,620 kind of concept of what certain cases 119 00:05:44,990 --> 00:05:42,120 look like especially when you haven't 120 00:05:47,749 --> 00:05:45,000 seen them rendered this way before so 121 00:05:49,730 --> 00:05:47,759 every time I I'll get a sneak preview 122 00:05:50,990 --> 00:05:49,740 sometimes from down in a new laugh and 123 00:05:53,510 --> 00:05:51,000 it won't be the whole thing it'll be 124 00:05:55,909 --> 00:05:53,520 this tiny little kind of smidgen you 125 00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:55,919 know this little kind of square of a 126 00:05:59,390 --> 00:05:57,120 part of the page it's like you know it's 127 00:06:01,189 --> 00:05:59,400 like a kind of like a jigsaw piece 128 00:06:02,810 --> 00:06:01,199 um you know it'll be a bit of sky and 129 00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:02,820 maybe a bit of land they actually sent 130 00:06:07,249 --> 00:06:04,800 me a bit of the UFO this time 131 00:06:09,590 --> 00:06:07,259 um so the the the expanded the amount 132 00:06:11,210 --> 00:06:09,600 information will send me 133 00:06:13,610 --> 00:06:11,220 um so it's quite funny really I get this 134 00:06:14,810 --> 00:06:13,620 tiny fragment and just as I kind of 135 00:06:16,670 --> 00:06:14,820 teaser 136 00:06:19,070 --> 00:06:16,680 um and it's just to wet my appetite and 137 00:06:21,469 --> 00:06:19,080 then then when I get it and you know I'm 138 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:21,479 really happy with it I'm also surprised 139 00:06:25,309 --> 00:06:23,580 just how good it is and how it it 140 00:06:27,110 --> 00:06:25,319 doesn't encapsulate you know everything 141 00:06:28,969 --> 00:06:27,120 that's to do with the case 142 00:06:31,070 --> 00:06:28,979 um and I'm usually Away by just how much 143 00:06:32,510 --> 00:06:31,080 details in it because it's not just the 144 00:06:34,730 --> 00:06:32,520 fact there's an airplane in a UFO 145 00:06:35,749 --> 00:06:34,740 there's so much if you look at the 146 00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:35,759 actual 147 00:06:39,890 --> 00:06:37,680 um the aircraft itself you'll see that 148 00:06:41,450 --> 00:06:39,900 on its wings one aileron is pointing 149 00:06:43,010 --> 00:06:41,460 upwards that's the water to the 150 00:06:44,689 --> 00:06:43,020 starboard wing and the aileron and the 151 00:06:46,430 --> 00:06:44,699 port Wings pointing downwards and if you 152 00:06:49,189 --> 00:06:46,440 look at the tail you'll see the elevator 153 00:06:51,770 --> 00:06:49,199 is same way so one's up one's down that 154 00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:51,780 means it's in a turn you know now would 155 00:06:56,809 --> 00:06:54,840 anybody think about it they did you know 156 00:06:58,909 --> 00:06:56,819 yeah it's authentic for the markings at 157 00:07:01,370 --> 00:06:58,919 604 Squadron so 158 00:07:03,890 --> 00:07:01,380 um you know it's it's down to the you're 159 00:07:06,469 --> 00:07:03,900 almost you know quite frankly almost The 160 00:07:09,529 --> 00:07:06,479 Last Detail uh to you know to a certain 161 00:07:11,450 --> 00:07:09,539 extent so you can see quite a lot of 162 00:07:14,450 --> 00:07:11,460 thought has gone into you know the 163 00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:14,460 recreation of this particular case and 164 00:07:18,890 --> 00:07:17,100 even amazing rivet detail on on the on 165 00:07:20,450 --> 00:07:18,900 the skin of the airplane you can see 166 00:07:21,230 --> 00:07:20,460 where there's you know where you can see 167 00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:21,240 it 168 00:07:24,290 --> 00:07:21,900 um 169 00:07:26,210 --> 00:07:24,300 and of course the the it's quite 170 00:07:27,770 --> 00:07:26,220 faithful as well even down to the 171 00:07:30,430 --> 00:07:27,780 ejector seat markings below the cockpit 172 00:07:33,170 --> 00:07:30,440 the little red triangle that's wow 173 00:07:34,790 --> 00:07:33,180 as well so all these things that I 174 00:07:36,529 --> 00:07:34,800 didn't even mention you know they've 175 00:07:39,110 --> 00:07:36,539 managed to capture so the two of the two 176 00:07:42,529 --> 00:07:39,120 guys you know thank you so much both of 177 00:07:44,510 --> 00:07:42,539 you wow it's just I've never seen 178 00:07:46,330 --> 00:07:44,520 artwork like this before beyond the 179 00:07:49,730 --> 00:07:46,340 stuff that the other two me neither 180 00:07:52,129 --> 00:07:49,740 but on a book cover you know I'm 181 00:07:53,990 --> 00:07:52,139 actually I'm just so so grateful and it 182 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:54,000 just sets off you know everything that's 183 00:07:57,950 --> 00:07:56,520 inside and it's it's almost becoming 184 00:08:02,050 --> 00:07:57,960 more difficult to actually make sure 185 00:08:04,430 --> 00:08:02,060 that the the content of the book matches 186 00:08:06,309 --> 00:08:04,440 I can't just shovel any others check out 187 00:08:09,230 --> 00:08:06,319 you know 188 00:08:10,870 --> 00:08:09,240 yeah well it better be good yeah well 189 00:08:13,790 --> 00:08:10,880 that's that's it yeah yeah 190 00:08:15,969 --> 00:08:13,800 what's the average don't judge a book by 191 00:08:18,850 --> 00:08:15,979 its cover well yeah yeah 192 00:08:21,589 --> 00:08:18,860 definitely maybe you have to yes 193 00:08:23,990 --> 00:08:21,599 well yeah it's not your fault it's up to 194 00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:24,000 what case cases happened in those years 195 00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:26,160 you can't control that right do you know 196 00:08:29,330 --> 00:08:27,360 sometimes I'll have a kind of 197 00:08:30,650 --> 00:08:29,340 embarrassment with riches I'll I'll pick 198 00:08:32,630 --> 00:08:30,660 like seven or eight they'll think oh 199 00:08:34,790 --> 00:08:32,640 which one do I really want to see on the 200 00:08:36,469 --> 00:08:34,800 cover you know and this time around I 201 00:08:38,449 --> 00:08:36,479 didn't want with no offense to your 202 00:08:40,250 --> 00:08:38,459 people on your side of the Atlantic I 203 00:08:42,290 --> 00:08:40,260 didn't want an American case because 204 00:08:44,510 --> 00:08:42,300 we've had those you know we'll have them 205 00:08:46,370 --> 00:08:44,520 with Canada we had them with a B-36 I 206 00:08:48,050 --> 00:08:46,380 wanted something from Europe 207 00:08:49,370 --> 00:08:48,060 um and I really wanted an RF case 208 00:08:51,530 --> 00:08:49,380 because some of the aircraft that were 209 00:08:53,449 --> 00:08:51,540 had back then were quite uh quite 210 00:08:55,310 --> 00:08:53,459 startling in the colors and the markings 211 00:08:56,810 --> 00:08:55,320 kind of thing where sometimes when you 212 00:08:59,389 --> 00:08:56,820 see American ones they're fairly Bland 213 00:09:01,250 --> 00:08:59,399 from back then so yeah I wanted 214 00:09:03,230 --> 00:09:01,260 something a bit different and you know 215 00:09:05,269 --> 00:09:03,240 this is this is what I came up with 216 00:09:06,590 --> 00:09:05,279 um but equally next time around I'm like 217 00:09:07,850 --> 00:09:06,600 well I was gonna might come up with a 218 00:09:09,110 --> 00:09:07,860 Russian one but then again maybe not 219 00:09:11,449 --> 00:09:09,120 when things are going at the moment 220 00:09:12,829 --> 00:09:11,459 that's kind of the word you know so I 221 00:09:14,750 --> 00:09:12,839 might have to pick a South American one 222 00:09:15,949 --> 00:09:14,760 yeah or an African one you know just 223 00:09:18,650 --> 00:09:15,959 something a bit different for the maybe 224 00:09:20,329 --> 00:09:18,660 the next one yeah but um it's always a 225 00:09:22,190 --> 00:09:20,339 kind of it's always something quite I 226 00:09:24,410 --> 00:09:22,200 look forward to thinking which one going 227 00:09:26,090 --> 00:09:24,420 to do this time you know so yeah it's 228 00:09:29,449 --> 00:09:26,100 quite nice to set the set the book 229 00:09:31,130 --> 00:09:29,459 Running well I I can't wait to see you 230 00:09:33,730 --> 00:09:31,140 know what other books come out as well 231 00:09:36,350 --> 00:09:33,740 something you know one thing I I really 232 00:09:38,210 --> 00:09:36,360 appreciate about your work is is how you 233 00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:38,220 keep it uniform 234 00:09:42,410 --> 00:09:40,380 um even your writing style you know the 235 00:09:45,350 --> 00:09:42,420 way you investigate 236 00:09:47,389 --> 00:09:45,360 um and the book covers and they all go 237 00:09:49,370 --> 00:09:47,399 together so beautifully it's you're 238 00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:49,380 putting together a really nice 239 00:09:52,910 --> 00:09:51,180 um set of books here so you should feel 240 00:09:55,550 --> 00:09:52,920 really proud about that and you're doing 241 00:09:57,290 --> 00:09:55,560 that Community uh such a great service 242 00:10:00,530 --> 00:09:57,300 doing that because you're putting these 243 00:10:02,690 --> 00:10:00,540 cases and the facts from the cases you 244 00:10:05,210 --> 00:10:02,700 know in these books and you know you're 245 00:10:07,550 --> 00:10:05,220 not letting those Witnesses and those 246 00:10:10,730 --> 00:10:07,560 encounters be forgotten and and that's a 247 00:10:13,250 --> 00:10:10,740 really uh an admirable thing to do so 248 00:10:15,170 --> 00:10:13,260 yeah I think when when I look back at 249 00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:15,180 the the first of these books I wrote I 250 00:10:17,810 --> 00:10:16,320 mean I'll say I didn't write them quite 251 00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:17,820 in order because I wrote flying Souls of 252 00:10:23,269 --> 00:10:19,920 fever first uh in terms of these three 253 00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:23,279 booths but the idea you know after you 254 00:10:27,650 --> 00:10:25,200 mentioned about this kind of repository 255 00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:27,660 of cases and I've used that as part of 256 00:10:32,690 --> 00:10:29,760 the resources uh you know to find out 257 00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:32,700 some of this information but um 258 00:10:36,769 --> 00:10:34,320 I looked back to the books I used to 259 00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,779 write and I used to read the 1970s and 260 00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:38,399 we've all seen books like this where 261 00:10:43,009 --> 00:10:40,680 they have case after case after case but 262 00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:43,019 there's very little space devoted to 263 00:10:47,329 --> 00:10:44,399 them because they have to go through 264 00:10:48,949 --> 00:10:47,339 hundreds of cases in a paperback book of 265 00:10:50,269 --> 00:10:48,959 maybe two or three hundred Pages 266 00:10:52,130 --> 00:10:50,279 sometimes you were looking to get that 267 00:10:54,590 --> 00:10:52,140 actually back in the you know back in 268 00:10:56,810 --> 00:10:54,600 the 60s and 70s but for some of these 269 00:10:58,490 --> 00:10:56,820 Airborne cases that do feature in the in 270 00:11:00,650 --> 00:10:58,500 those books you were lucky if you got 271 00:11:02,449 --> 00:11:00,660 like three or four lines or if you did 272 00:11:04,430 --> 00:11:02,459 get a little bit more you didn't get the 273 00:11:07,550 --> 00:11:04,440 nitty-gritty you got like a kind of a 274 00:11:09,170 --> 00:11:07,560 crazy of a case and I was when I used to 275 00:11:10,730 --> 00:11:09,180 read these even as a kid I used to think 276 00:11:12,769 --> 00:11:10,740 well you know there must be more to this 277 00:11:14,690 --> 00:11:12,779 I wanted to read more but you couldn't 278 00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:14,700 get any more it was always the same kind 279 00:11:19,550 --> 00:11:17,040 of popular kind of History this you know 280 00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:19,560 very very brief description and you know 281 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:21,839 me being the sponge I used to be as a 282 00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:23,220 kid trying to get more and more 283 00:11:26,389 --> 00:11:25,200 information these were the books and I 284 00:11:28,009 --> 00:11:26,399 said this before but other things I've 285 00:11:29,630 --> 00:11:28,019 written these are the books I really 286 00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:29,640 wanted to write you know to read myself 287 00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:32,220 as a youngster and then as a young adult 288 00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:34,800 so when I got the point of rewriting 289 00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:36,959 them myself that's what that's what I 290 00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:37,980 was going to write I was going to write 291 00:11:42,170 --> 00:11:40,320 the books I wanted to read as a kid and 292 00:11:43,610 --> 00:11:42,180 I'm sure other people have done that for 293 00:11:45,230 --> 00:11:43,620 other books they've written not 294 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:45,240 necessarily in UFOs but in other you 295 00:11:49,009 --> 00:11:46,800 know strands of literature and and and 296 00:11:50,569 --> 00:11:49,019 non-fiction you know that's what you do 297 00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:50,579 you tend to write the book that you want 298 00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:53,040 to read yourself yeah just nobody comes 299 00:11:57,290 --> 00:11:54,360 along and does it themselves so there 300 00:12:00,050 --> 00:11:57,300 you go yeah yeah and that works for so 301 00:12:01,730 --> 00:12:00,060 many other things right like uh I I 302 00:12:03,290 --> 00:12:01,740 relate that to music like I want to 303 00:12:04,090 --> 00:12:03,300 write the songs that I want to hear you 304 00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:04,100 know 305 00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:06,600 same kind of thing yeah 306 00:12:12,829 --> 00:12:09,720 so I think that's fantastic one thing 307 00:12:15,410 --> 00:12:12,839 um I'm really interested to uh ask you 308 00:12:19,310 --> 00:12:15,420 about and get into with you 309 00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:19,320 um in regards to the year 1953 so that 310 00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:21,180 was a it's a really interesting year 311 00:12:26,269 --> 00:12:24,480 because the year prior is 52. 312 00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:26,279 um you know the Washington DC sightings 313 00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:28,740 then you had the CIA get involved with 314 00:12:33,230 --> 00:12:31,260 the uh intelligence community and they 315 00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,240 you know concoct this plan with the Air 316 00:12:37,310 --> 00:12:35,279 Force to put together this panel of 317 00:12:40,430 --> 00:12:37,320 scientists called the Robertson panel 318 00:12:42,530 --> 00:12:40,440 first chapter of the book yeah so so 319 00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:42,540 then that happened so I'm really curious 320 00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:43,740 like 321 00:12:48,410 --> 00:12:46,079 you know what's your take on how the Air 322 00:12:51,949 --> 00:12:48,420 Force dealt with cases 323 00:12:54,170 --> 00:12:51,959 um post Robertson panel versus 324 00:12:55,850 --> 00:12:54,180 you know pre-robertson panel do you 325 00:12:57,650 --> 00:12:55,860 notice a difference and if so what is it 326 00:13:00,110 --> 00:12:57,660 I think it was a it was a bit of a 327 00:13:01,430 --> 00:13:00,120 watershed moment I mean clearly there 328 00:13:02,509 --> 00:13:01,440 was a direction of travel anyway that 329 00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:02,519 they were going to try and write off 330 00:13:05,569 --> 00:13:03,959 cases as much as they could but I don't 331 00:13:07,370 --> 00:13:05,579 think there was a there's been a 332 00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:07,380 scientific backup to that they've been 333 00:13:11,389 --> 00:13:09,120 obviously that had high neck as a 334 00:13:14,269 --> 00:13:11,399 consultant at certain times 335 00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,279 um with sign language or less garage but 336 00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:16,560 also for men Blue Book and he was coming 337 00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:17,880 up with you know fairly mundane 338 00:13:21,230 --> 00:13:19,680 explanation Celestial 339 00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:21,240 um explanations because he was an 340 00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:23,760 astronomer uh so he you know if there's 341 00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:25,680 any any hint of it being a star or a 342 00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,420 comet or or a media or whatever yeah 343 00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:29,760 then that's what they said and of course 344 00:13:33,710 --> 00:13:31,320 they had all the balloon stories as well 345 00:13:35,150 --> 00:13:33,720 so there clearly was a kind of ground 346 00:13:36,590 --> 00:13:35,160 you know they were preparing the ground 347 00:13:38,509 --> 00:13:36,600 for like you know we'll just have to 348 00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:38,519 write these offers something 349 00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:41,040 um but it it sort of it seems like it 350 00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:42,959 sort of became formalized with the 351 00:13:46,490 --> 00:13:44,639 Robinson panels so if you ever looked at 352 00:13:48,610 --> 00:13:46,500 the recommendations they're not saying 353 00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:48,620 to shut it down 354 00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,600 what they're saying is expand it but 355 00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:53,279 it's not expanding it for the right 356 00:13:56,690 --> 00:13:54,720 reasons we're not doing this and some 357 00:13:58,670 --> 00:13:56,700 kind of scientific curiosity we're not 358 00:14:00,110 --> 00:13:58,680 doing it because we want to throw so 359 00:14:01,850 --> 00:14:00,120 many resources at it that we want to 360 00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:01,860 find out what these are we're doing it 361 00:14:05,329 --> 00:14:03,360 because we want to basically educate the 362 00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:05,339 the public we're trying to say 363 00:14:11,090 --> 00:14:07,200 effectively hey stupid you're 364 00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:11,100 misidentified seagulls and and meteors 365 00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:14,220 and uh your cockpit Reflections and 366 00:14:18,650 --> 00:14:17,100 everything else as UFOs you know this is 367 00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:18,660 really what you're looking at here's a 368 00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:21,420 picture here's a picture of Venus that's 369 00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:23,040 what you're looking at this is the kind 370 00:14:25,970 --> 00:14:24,480 of thing that they want to do they want 371 00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:25,980 to have a basically a mass education 372 00:14:29,210 --> 00:14:27,180 program 373 00:14:30,889 --> 00:14:29,220 um an Outreach if you like 374 00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:30,899 um you know going into um you're going 375 00:14:34,370 --> 00:14:33,000 to go to Airlines go to schools go to 376 00:14:36,050 --> 00:14:34,380 the libraries all the rest of it they 377 00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:36,060 wanted just a huge thing to go and to 378 00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:37,560 tell people left right in the center 379 00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:40,079 you're seeing things and this is really 380 00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:42,959 what you're looking at they're not UFOs 381 00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:45,360 um and of course that went hand in hand 382 00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:47,220 with this kind of thing where they were 383 00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:49,260 clamping down on the trying to get away 384 00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:51,720 from unknowns because again it was a 385 00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:53,279 case of well look if we can find more 386 00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:55,680 information on these cases then we can 387 00:14:59,810 --> 00:14:57,720 write them off as you know things which 388 00:15:01,389 --> 00:14:59,820 are mundane it was only because we don't 389 00:15:03,530 --> 00:15:01,399 have that extra information to hand 390 00:15:05,629 --> 00:15:03,540 therefore you know that's why they're 391 00:15:07,310 --> 00:15:05,639 still unknown well that might be the 392 00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:07,320 case for some things but it's certainly 393 00:15:11,870 --> 00:15:09,000 you know there were some really good 394 00:15:14,030 --> 00:15:11,880 cases not just for 1554 but for before 395 00:15:15,710 --> 00:15:14,040 that and also since where they've had a 396 00:15:17,449 --> 00:15:15,720 shed load of information about a case 397 00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:17,459 but there's still no further forward 398 00:15:21,889 --> 00:15:19,500 from it so that doesn't necessarily wash 399 00:15:23,569 --> 00:15:21,899 but for the people who they picked uh 400 00:15:25,069 --> 00:15:23,579 you know from the to the field for the 401 00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:25,079 for the Robinson panel and you had 402 00:15:29,689 --> 00:15:26,940 people like Howard Robinson he was the 403 00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:29,699 um he was the chairman he'd been uh you 404 00:15:32,569 --> 00:15:30,959 know he'd been the person who would 405 00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:32,579 obviously uh what they call him the man 406 00:15:39,290 --> 00:15:36,420 who proved Einstein wrong uh because he 407 00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:39,300 peer-reviewed uh uh Einstein's paper do 408 00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:41,820 gravitational waves exist uh I think 409 00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,399 back in that he was in 1936 or something 410 00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:46,560 um and he basically proved that 411 00:15:50,569 --> 00:15:48,420 um there was part of it that's Einstein 412 00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:50,579 you hadn't considered uh and he got 413 00:15:54,290 --> 00:15:52,980 something wrong and I'd actually choose 414 00:15:56,810 --> 00:15:54,300 credit you know put his hand up and said 415 00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:56,820 yeah yeah you know it is wrong 416 00:16:01,790 --> 00:16:00,240 um Robinson also went on to be somebody 417 00:16:03,290 --> 00:16:01,800 who was actually trying to find out 418 00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,300 stuff about the Germans intentions 419 00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,040 during World War II he served in he 420 00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,720 served in London 421 00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:09,360 um as a advisory as a kind of consultant 422 00:16:14,509 --> 00:16:12,240 as well as a liaison officer to to the 423 00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:14,519 British so he was possibly aware of the 424 00:16:18,590 --> 00:16:16,260 Foo Fighters as well because he must 425 00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:18,600 have been privy to reports about things 426 00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:21,360 like that so he had a kind of hand in a 427 00:16:27,410 --> 00:16:23,880 few things beforehand but he was an 428 00:16:29,569 --> 00:16:27,420 authority on uh on a lot of things 429 00:16:32,290 --> 00:16:29,579 um you know kind of like he worked on 430 00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,300 radar countermeasures he was he 431 00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:34,800 interviewed uh captured rocket you know 432 00:16:39,050 --> 00:16:37,199 Specialists uh aeronautical 433 00:16:40,970 --> 00:16:39,060 um you know kind of um people designers 434 00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:40,980 all the rest of it uh in Germany after 435 00:16:46,490 --> 00:16:44,220 the war so um you know he he was quite 436 00:16:48,410 --> 00:16:46,500 some guy but then had some you know some 437 00:16:50,269 --> 00:16:48,420 other people uh I think they had people 438 00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:50,279 from the University of California they 439 00:16:54,769 --> 00:16:51,980 had people from Brookhaven Naval 440 00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:54,779 Laboratories uh the offer from John 441 00:16:58,970 --> 00:16:57,120 Hopkins University heinek was actually 442 00:17:01,249 --> 00:16:58,980 an associate as well so I think they had 443 00:17:03,170 --> 00:17:01,259 two Associates uh on the panel and 444 00:17:06,110 --> 00:17:03,180 somebody from Arthur little a guy called 445 00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:06,120 Frederick Durant uh and um now Arthur 446 00:17:09,049 --> 00:17:07,199 little they were the people who 447 00:17:11,449 --> 00:17:09,059 eventually came up with the NASDAQ Star 448 00:17:12,650 --> 00:17:11,459 Exchange you know so that again these 449 00:17:14,929 --> 00:17:12,660 aren't people who are any kind of 450 00:17:16,909 --> 00:17:14,939 slouchers in any kind of field right 451 00:17:18,530 --> 00:17:16,919 um but together when they brought them 452 00:17:20,210 --> 00:17:18,540 together it was a case of you know this 453 00:17:22,490 --> 00:17:20,220 is what we think the thing is there's 454 00:17:24,289 --> 00:17:22,500 nothing to the phenomenon it's actually 455 00:17:25,789 --> 00:17:24,299 just people misidentifying stuff that 456 00:17:27,409 --> 00:17:25,799 they would sit they would normally see 457 00:17:29,630 --> 00:17:27,419 when the different circumstances and 458 00:17:31,549 --> 00:17:29,640 call something else yeah that was 459 00:17:33,409 --> 00:17:31,559 interesting because the case is that the 460 00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,419 Robertson panel reviewed weren't even 461 00:17:37,730 --> 00:17:35,360 the best cases 462 00:17:38,990 --> 00:17:37,740 no well it's not many either 463 00:17:41,330 --> 00:17:39,000 um I mean if I can't remember off the 464 00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:41,340 Tottenham yeah maybe like 10 or so no 465 00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,860 there was um yeah there were eight uh um 466 00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:45,360 I think there was eight all together 467 00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:55,510 Utah case 468 00:18:00,650 --> 00:17:58,799 like Blurry stuff and there's like one 469 00:18:03,409 --> 00:18:00,660 person who saw it when you have all 470 00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:03,419 these uh airline pilots who have had 471 00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:05,460 run-ins with these things some of which 472 00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:06,840 were picked up on radar they don't 473 00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,900 review those no yes yeah so things like 474 00:18:14,570 --> 00:18:11,520 the George Gorman you know the dog fight 475 00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:14,580 uh over right you know and I was in 476 00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:16,679 October 48. you know that's not there 477 00:18:21,049 --> 00:18:18,559 you've got like there's a case in Japan 478 00:18:24,890 --> 00:18:21,059 uh there's you know the history of Japan 479 00:18:26,930 --> 00:18:24,900 from August 52. even then you know no 480 00:18:27,950 --> 00:18:26,940 they don't have well they do yes they do 481 00:18:28,810 --> 00:18:27,960 have those 482 00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:28,820 um 483 00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:32,400 oh it is okay yeah it is yeah there's a 484 00:18:37,310 --> 00:18:33,960 Great Falls Montana there's a Tremonton 485 00:18:40,730 --> 00:18:37,320 Utah Port Huron Michigan belfontaine 486 00:18:43,070 --> 00:18:40,740 Ohio the Japan the Japanese one uh a 487 00:18:45,549 --> 00:18:43,080 place in Montana called Yak uh and 488 00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:45,559 Prescott Isle in in Maine I've probably 489 00:18:50,930 --> 00:18:47,700 the the pronunciation in some of those 490 00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:50,940 places but then again so so yeah you 491 00:18:54,110 --> 00:18:51,900 know they bring all these people 492 00:18:56,029 --> 00:18:54,120 together they're like these aren't the 493 00:18:59,090 --> 00:18:56,039 best cases but it's an assortment 494 00:19:00,590 --> 00:18:59,100 they'll give us your best idea on what 495 00:19:02,510 --> 00:19:00,600 you think and let's work that way yeah 496 00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:02,520 it's pretty ridiculous but can I just um 497 00:19:05,870 --> 00:19:04,500 can I just ask uh sorry can I answer a 498 00:19:07,630 --> 00:19:05,880 question that Gerald Greenwood uh just 499 00:19:10,190 --> 00:19:07,640 posed a little while oh yeah yeah yeah 500 00:19:11,330 --> 00:19:10,200 sorry yeah you just mentioned um you 501 00:19:13,370 --> 00:19:11,340 know were the cases that I was already 502 00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:13,380 familiar with before I started doing the 503 00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:15,240 research and if so 504 00:19:19,130 --> 00:19:17,039 um you know how did the original Source 505 00:19:20,990 --> 00:19:19,140 compare with what I already knew uh 506 00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:21,000 Gerald yeah it's always the case when 507 00:19:25,610 --> 00:19:23,340 I've got an idea of some cases some of 508 00:19:27,529 --> 00:19:25,620 the more famous ones and some of the not 509 00:19:29,450 --> 00:19:27,539 so more famous ones and then when I do 510 00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:29,460 dial event it's okay so oh I didn't know 511 00:19:33,470 --> 00:19:31,679 that or or it does sort of reinforce 512 00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:33,480 what I already know but most of the time 513 00:19:36,890 --> 00:19:35,640 I'm Amazed by just little bits of 514 00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:36,900 information the quote in the background 515 00:19:40,810 --> 00:19:39,360 uh because you know there's you can't 516 00:19:43,549 --> 00:19:40,820 there's no such thing as bad information 517 00:19:45,529 --> 00:19:43,559 uh it's just really it'll just all Grist 518 00:19:47,570 --> 00:19:45,539 to the mill and I'm so happy that I can 519 00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:47,580 tease all these extra bits out 520 00:19:51,950 --> 00:19:49,380 um and it just you know sets it's always 521 00:19:54,350 --> 00:19:51,960 sets me down other alleys of exploration 522 00:19:56,330 --> 00:19:54,360 so it's amazing sometimes what I can 523 00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:56,340 find out about things which I just never 524 00:20:00,110 --> 00:19:58,799 knew and I'm hoping that you know a lot 525 00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,120 of the stuff that's in these books and 526 00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:01,919 not just this one but the other ones is 527 00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:03,600 new to a lot of people as well and I 528 00:20:07,789 --> 00:20:05,340 usually do say in either the forward or 529 00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:07,799 the end part that you know a lot of you 530 00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,960 will know some of these stories but you 531 00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:11,520 might not know them in so much detail 532 00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:13,919 and and if you do then there will be 533 00:20:16,909 --> 00:20:15,600 cases in this book which or this book 534 00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:16,919 and others which you will never have 535 00:20:20,690 --> 00:20:19,140 heard of before because it won't have 536 00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:20,700 come across them because some of them 537 00:20:25,010 --> 00:20:22,980 just haven't appeared in print before 538 00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:25,020 um there might have been appeared in 539 00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:26,880 some obscure website or in a list of 540 00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:29,220 cases but in terms of any kind of detail 541 00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:31,679 you know that simply doesn't exist or 542 00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:33,120 unless you're prepared to go through you 543 00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:35,340 know really old newsletters you know 544 00:20:42,169 --> 00:20:39,299 which well I do that I'm sure 545 00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:42,179 um but then that's just me you know 546 00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:45,240 yeah no I mean uh yeah I think that has 547 00:20:49,549 --> 00:20:46,559 to do with probably a lot of things 548 00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:49,559 right like uh those files were not 549 00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:52,080 really easily accessible for a very very 550 00:20:56,570 --> 00:20:55,200 long time no um and well in terms of 551 00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:56,580 those newsletters you basically have to 552 00:20:59,870 --> 00:20:58,020 have a stock of them because they were 553 00:21:03,529 --> 00:20:59,880 digitized here until until fairly 554 00:21:05,450 --> 00:21:03,539 recently so if you didn't have access to 555 00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:05,460 those back issues then you either had to 556 00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:07,440 know somebody who did or you had to be 557 00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:08,580 looking that you could you know maybe 558 00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:10,620 ask somebody to send you one and read 559 00:21:13,010 --> 00:21:11,940 through them and you know or from a 560 00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:13,020 library but you know libraries don't 561 00:21:16,250 --> 00:21:14,760 have those kind of things really 562 00:21:17,870 --> 00:21:16,260 um so yeah we're looking nowadays that 563 00:21:20,570 --> 00:21:17,880 we're in the information age 564 00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:20,580 and so much stuff uh people like Isaac 565 00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,220 Coy and those AFU Sweden and now David 566 00:21:28,490 --> 00:21:25,679 mahler's your sort of project about 567 00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,500 digitizing information all these groups 568 00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:31,200 you know have managed to digitize a huge 569 00:21:34,610 --> 00:21:32,640 amount of stuff 570 00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:34,620 um that is freely available that they're 571 00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:36,240 not hiding it behind a paywall or 572 00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:37,860 anything like that which is which is 573 00:21:41,690 --> 00:21:39,840 great you know from from my point of 574 00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:41,700 view but from others because you know 575 00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:42,780 the last thing you want to do is hide 576 00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:44,159 stuff away and say oh look you know 577 00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,840 you're going to Shell out it's far 578 00:21:49,810 --> 00:21:47,039 better to try and fund these 579 00:21:52,669 --> 00:21:49,820 organizations in other ways rather than 580 00:21:54,169 --> 00:21:52,679 pay for Access and unfortunately seen 581 00:21:58,010 --> 00:21:54,179 too much of that in the past you know so 582 00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:58,020 right right it's great yeah now tell me 583 00:22:01,370 --> 00:22:00,240 something that that was 584 00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:01,380 um 585 00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:04,140 maybe the most surprising to you when 586 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:05,940 you're going through these cases what 587 00:22:10,010 --> 00:22:08,100 give me something that really stuck out 588 00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:10,020 to you like I can't believe the 589 00:22:14,029 --> 00:22:11,940 investigator did that or I can't believe 590 00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:14,039 the description was this or just 591 00:22:19,370 --> 00:22:16,700 something that really stood up you just 592 00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,380 sometimes I mean it's not a case of like 593 00:22:22,669 --> 00:22:21,600 how startling a case is sometimes it's a 594 00:22:25,490 --> 00:22:22,679 case of 595 00:22:27,049 --> 00:22:25,500 you look at the information regarding a 596 00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:27,059 sighting and you think hold on why 597 00:22:32,330 --> 00:22:28,640 hasn't somebody picked up on that before 598 00:22:34,669 --> 00:22:32,340 and that's sort of where I have to kind 599 00:22:36,409 --> 00:22:34,679 of check myself and think I need to look 600 00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:36,419 to see whether nobody has actually 601 00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:38,940 flagged this up before or am I just 602 00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:41,520 gonna go be looked really stupid I'm 603 00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:43,080 thinking making and drawing attention to 604 00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:44,820 it when everybody goes yeah we already 605 00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:46,500 know about that Graham why are you going 606 00:22:50,169 --> 00:22:48,720 on about it yeah I did that a lot yeah 607 00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:50,179 sure 608 00:22:57,529 --> 00:22:53,940 so the the second the the second chapter 609 00:22:59,210 --> 00:22:57,539 has a story about a a an RAF Canberra uh 610 00:23:02,090 --> 00:22:59,220 it's a medium bomb it was a jack bomb 611 00:23:03,470 --> 00:23:02,100 it's the first jet bomber in RAF service 612 00:23:06,049 --> 00:23:03,480 um and it was actually unarmed because 613 00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:06,059 the idea was that it was so fast for its 614 00:23:09,529 --> 00:23:07,679 time that it didn't need offensive 615 00:23:12,350 --> 00:23:09,539 Weaponry so it didn't need um you know 616 00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:12,360 guns it just dropped bombs and that was 617 00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:14,340 the idea of the art of the English it 618 00:23:19,370 --> 00:23:17,220 was called the English electric Canberra 619 00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:19,380 uh and it was a it was a two-seater so 620 00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:21,240 he had a pilot in our Navigator who I 621 00:23:25,130 --> 00:23:23,520 think it's a bomb aimer as well but some 622 00:23:27,289 --> 00:23:25,140 of these aircraft were Opera and 623 00:23:28,970 --> 00:23:27,299 employed on Trials as well for various 624 00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:28,980 kits and stuff like that throughout the 625 00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:31,440 early 50s and one aircraft 626 00:23:36,169 --> 00:23:33,840 um from uh an Airfield down the site in 627 00:23:38,330 --> 00:23:36,179 England uh and it wasn't part of the RAF 628 00:23:39,890 --> 00:23:38,340 unit it was part one of these trials 629 00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:39,900 um organizations 630 00:23:47,810 --> 00:23:43,200 it was allegedly a part of a UFO 631 00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:47,820 incident in in early 1953 now the actual 632 00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,400 testimony from the um from the the guy 633 00:23:54,289 --> 00:23:52,080 who actually reported it and he wasn't 634 00:23:57,230 --> 00:23:54,299 the pilot he was the guy fiddling about 635 00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,240 with this in these new bits of equipment 636 00:24:02,810 --> 00:23:59,760 um part of it was 637 00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:02,820 um transcribed by a fairly famous uh UFO 638 00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:05,640 investigator in Britain some time ago uh 639 00:24:09,529 --> 00:24:07,200 and it's appeared in print here before 640 00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:09,539 it's nothing new the actual testimony 641 00:24:13,130 --> 00:24:11,880 and the story of the of the case now 642 00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:13,140 it's one that probably people either 643 00:24:16,610 --> 00:24:14,640 forgotten about or they're not aware of 644 00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:16,620 too much because it's not famous by any 645 00:24:19,370 --> 00:24:18,000 means it's not one that you'd roll off 646 00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:19,380 your tone you know if you're talking 647 00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:21,720 about aerial cases in the UK however 648 00:24:27,049 --> 00:24:24,240 it's one I've come across before 649 00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:27,059 um but in the midst of all the the stuff 650 00:24:32,090 --> 00:24:29,280 about the information you'd think that 651 00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:32,100 somebody who was a part of a test flight 652 00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:34,980 Squadron would know about what the 653 00:24:38,330 --> 00:24:36,360 makeup of a Canberra was like because 654 00:24:40,430 --> 00:24:38,340 he'd flown quite a few times apparently 655 00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:40,440 and he talks about a gun tourist 656 00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:42,780 it talks about climbing into the rear 657 00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:45,840 gun turret of a Canberra and I can I can 658 00:24:50,270 --> 00:24:47,580 see the people at home now who know 659 00:24:53,710 --> 00:24:50,280 anything about the camera going where 660 00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:53,720 the hell is a gun turret on a candle hmm 661 00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:56,520 so that's one of the surprising things 662 00:25:01,789 --> 00:24:59,039 it's not a kind of groundbreaking kind 663 00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:01,799 of you know oh that's such an amazing 664 00:25:06,830 --> 00:25:04,880 case that means the display tomorrow 665 00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:06,840 it's one of the it's one of the other 666 00:25:09,890 --> 00:25:07,919 kind of thing where you're looking to 667 00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:09,900 think am I the only person who's seen 668 00:25:13,130 --> 00:25:12,120 this you know am I the only person who's 669 00:25:15,230 --> 00:25:13,140 like drawing attention to the fact 670 00:25:17,090 --> 00:25:15,240 there's a big flag here thinking what's 671 00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:17,100 wrong with the rest of the story you 672 00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:18,960 know because there's no sacred plans in 673 00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:20,640 this business you know if you come 674 00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:22,260 across something you know you've got to 675 00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,820 call attention to think well hello we 676 00:25:27,529 --> 00:25:25,440 need to question this we need to say 677 00:25:29,330 --> 00:25:27,539 well if that's there's something wrong 678 00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:29,340 about this what else is wrong about the 679 00:25:32,090 --> 00:25:30,480 rest of the story because the last thing 680 00:25:33,649 --> 00:25:32,100 you want to do is perpetuate myths now 681 00:25:35,930 --> 00:25:33,659 I'm not saying the story is a myth by 682 00:25:37,850 --> 00:25:35,940 any means it's just that that bit does 683 00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:37,860 raise big red flags to me and think well 684 00:25:42,169 --> 00:25:39,840 hold on you know if somebody's 685 00:25:43,730 --> 00:25:42,179 mentioning the client they were gun 686 00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:43,740 turret in the Canberra then they don't 687 00:25:47,769 --> 00:25:45,120 know anything about a Canberra because 688 00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:47,779 it doesn't have one for one thing 689 00:25:53,710 --> 00:25:50,640 so where do you go from there do you see 690 00:25:57,169 --> 00:25:53,720 he's making up the story or no 691 00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:57,179 yeah why all I can do is you know 692 00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,559 highlight the readers the fact that 693 00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:01,200 that's a big kind of like thing well 694 00:26:05,630 --> 00:26:03,720 that's not right so you have to then 695 00:26:07,730 --> 00:26:05,640 look at the rest of it with a but 696 00:26:10,010 --> 00:26:07,740 obviously with a pinch of salt but also 697 00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:10,020 maybe sort of see what else was around 698 00:26:14,750 --> 00:26:12,480 the story as well I can't do too much of 699 00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:14,760 that because there's not there's not a 700 00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:17,460 lot else beyond that story and actually 701 00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:18,960 try to trace the guy afterwards while 702 00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:20,880 he's obviously long dead but 703 00:26:26,029 --> 00:26:23,580 um it's just a bit kind of 704 00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:26,039 you'll see a lot of cases in ufology not 705 00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:27,360 just the aerial ones you think I mean 706 00:26:31,730 --> 00:26:29,039 even Roswell for instance you're the one 707 00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:31,740 the holy Grails of ufology you know 708 00:26:34,970 --> 00:26:33,480 there's certain parts of that story that 709 00:26:37,130 --> 00:26:34,980 don't make sense there are certain 710 00:26:38,510 --> 00:26:37,140 witnesses witnesses and commerce who 711 00:26:41,149 --> 00:26:38,520 have come out the woodwork over you know 712 00:26:43,250 --> 00:26:41,159 in recent over the over the years told a 713 00:26:45,289 --> 00:26:43,260 good story disappeared in books The 714 00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,299 Forbidden documentaries and then when 715 00:26:49,730 --> 00:26:47,760 somebody else has done a bit of due 716 00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:49,740 diligence and checked their story and 717 00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:51,120 checked what they're saying and checked 718 00:26:53,930 --> 00:26:52,980 some other bits around it turns out that 719 00:26:56,590 --> 00:26:53,940 they're talking you know they're just 720 00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:56,600 telling porkies you know so important 721 00:27:02,510 --> 00:26:59,279 I'm gonna use that one what are you 722 00:27:05,450 --> 00:27:02,520 telling porkies so 723 00:27:07,610 --> 00:27:05,460 um it's a case of you know a lot of 724 00:27:08,930 --> 00:27:07,620 stories you know intrinsically there 725 00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:08,940 might be there's something to them but 726 00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:11,039 often there's people in events 727 00:27:14,450 --> 00:27:12,720 associated with stories which don't 728 00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,460 quite add up that doesn't mean to say 729 00:27:20,029 --> 00:27:17,279 the story itself isn't true right it 730 00:27:22,610 --> 00:27:20,039 just means that could have been a bit 731 00:27:24,769 --> 00:27:22,620 yeah you just have to you just have to 732 00:27:27,169 --> 00:27:24,779 then sort of you know stand back at it 733 00:27:29,149 --> 00:27:27,179 and whether okay if that's wrong what 734 00:27:31,549 --> 00:27:29,159 else is wrong with this story you know 735 00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:31,559 and that's just me being being sensible 736 00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:33,600 that's not the me being kind of you know 737 00:27:36,350 --> 00:27:34,799 I don't want to have a rose tinted 738 00:27:38,450 --> 00:27:36,360 glasses on I don't want to think 739 00:27:40,210 --> 00:27:38,460 everything you know is great with a 740 00:27:43,610 --> 00:27:40,220 story I'm not going to airbrush 741 00:27:45,169 --> 00:27:43,620 inconvenient facts because it makes it 742 00:27:47,390 --> 00:27:45,179 you know because it makes it read better 743 00:27:49,610 --> 00:27:47,400 uh I will draw attention to these things 744 00:27:51,529 --> 00:27:49,620 hold on we need to have a look at this 745 00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,539 first you know this the elephant in the 746 00:27:56,210 --> 00:27:54,000 room here so uh yeah there you go tell 747 00:27:58,669 --> 00:27:56,220 me about an instance where you were 748 00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:58,679 working on a story you were working 749 00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,240 pretty hard put a good amount of effort 750 00:28:04,730 --> 00:28:02,159 into it you really thought it was a 751 00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:04,740 great story and then you found a detail 752 00:28:09,230 --> 00:28:07,440 which kind of just blew the whole thing 753 00:28:11,450 --> 00:28:09,240 up for you 754 00:28:13,070 --> 00:28:11,460 well it's one of the early books and I 755 00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:13,080 didn't even bother putting it in um 756 00:28:16,730 --> 00:28:15,120 there's a story of a of a pilot and 757 00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:16,740 actually the name of the years change as 758 00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:19,679 well uh you he said he was a an officer 759 00:28:23,810 --> 00:28:21,840 in the in the Air Force 760 00:28:25,789 --> 00:28:23,820 um and the there's a there's a case and 761 00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:25,799 it's down somewhere down near the 762 00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:28,080 Mexican border uh and he was supposedly 763 00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:30,120 flying a jet fighter and of course it 764 00:28:33,769 --> 00:28:31,679 was one of these UFO 765 00:28:35,810 --> 00:28:33,779 um kind of interceptions and it turned 766 00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,820 out the guy was actually in the in the 767 00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:38,159 um in the Civil Air Patrol and and the 768 00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:39,360 and you know he's only have been 769 00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:41,279 photographed with a several airport 770 00:28:44,390 --> 00:28:43,200 um uniform and I think he might even be 771 00:28:45,769 --> 00:28:44,400 a colonel in that but that's like an 772 00:28:48,289 --> 00:28:45,779 honorary title it's not an Air Force 773 00:28:49,970 --> 00:28:48,299 rank uh in fact this guy apparently 774 00:28:52,970 --> 00:28:49,980 according to Kevin Randall who actually 775 00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:52,980 did some investigation into this chap 776 00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:55,200 um he um he never you know he was only 777 00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:56,640 ever in the army or something he was 778 00:29:02,630 --> 00:28:59,039 never he was never really a pilot 779 00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:02,640 um in the Air Force so excuse me I'm 780 00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:04,020 just getting over a really bad cold at 781 00:29:06,909 --> 00:29:05,520 the moment 782 00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:06,919 um so 783 00:29:11,810 --> 00:29:09,480 so he was um 784 00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,820 it was a bit of a fraud basically 785 00:29:15,549 --> 00:29:13,679 um so you know if that comes out then 786 00:29:18,769 --> 00:29:15,559 what's wrong with the rest of the story 787 00:29:22,810 --> 00:29:18,779 right right right right no I I know what 788 00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:22,820 you mean and do you find it difficult to 789 00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:24,960 you know as you're going through these 790 00:29:27,470 --> 00:29:26,940 cases 791 00:29:29,210 --> 00:29:27,480 um 792 00:29:31,549 --> 00:29:29,220 and there's always so much conflict 793 00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:31,559 between what the witness says and what 794 00:29:37,310 --> 00:29:34,140 the investigator says 795 00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:37,320 um like how do you parse that it is it 796 00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,600 just is it only possible to do what 797 00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:41,760 you're doing without having 798 00:29:44,690 --> 00:29:42,960 um 799 00:29:49,970 --> 00:29:44,700 basically any idea of what really 800 00:29:53,630 --> 00:29:51,590 because it's so hard to tell you can't 801 00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:53,640 talk to these people again you don't 802 00:29:58,490 --> 00:29:55,440 know if the investigator on that case 803 00:30:00,769 --> 00:29:58,500 happened to be lazy and Miss details or 804 00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:00,779 the witness didn't give as much as they 805 00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:02,880 could have because they didn't want 806 00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:04,799 stigma or they were tired you know or 807 00:30:08,330 --> 00:30:06,840 whatever 808 00:30:10,010 --> 00:30:08,340 um give me give me 30 seconds I'm gonna 809 00:30:11,090 --> 00:30:10,020 go oh yeah sure I'm actually going to 810 00:30:16,669 --> 00:30:11,100 start coughing the head off in a second 811 00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:19,250 well it's just us 812 00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:21,840 um I made Graham sick and 813 00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,940 made him cough so that's not the first 814 00:30:28,250 --> 00:30:25,679 time I've done something like that but 815 00:30:30,409 --> 00:30:28,260 it's been a while so it's kind of quite 816 00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,419 surprising 817 00:30:33,529 --> 00:30:31,679 um but yeah I was just asking about 818 00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:33,539 something that always is tough for me 819 00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:35,640 when I'm looking at cases 820 00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:38,399 um always wondering 821 00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,520 you know if this investigator would have 822 00:30:44,750 --> 00:30:43,200 just gave it a little more effort maybe 823 00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:44,760 we could have gotten a better idea of 824 00:30:50,450 --> 00:30:48,000 what happened that day or or you know 825 00:30:52,610 --> 00:30:50,460 with that encounter and vice versa 826 00:30:54,889 --> 00:30:52,620 sometimes you can tell 827 00:30:56,570 --> 00:30:54,899 that the witness really didn't say as 828 00:30:58,490 --> 00:30:56,580 much as they could have about what 829 00:31:01,130 --> 00:30:58,500 happened for whatever reason 830 00:31:03,289 --> 00:31:01,140 and there's nothing you can do about it 831 00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:03,299 those cases are from the late 40s 50s 832 00:31:08,570 --> 00:31:06,480 those people are gone for the most part 833 00:31:11,149 --> 00:31:08,580 um so you know bringing it up to date 834 00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:11,159 that's why it's important that uh this 835 00:31:16,669 --> 00:31:13,020 Arrow office and the reporting that 836 00:31:18,649 --> 00:31:16,679 they're doing is is detailed as possible 837 00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:18,659 and hopefully they put in like more 838 00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:21,120 actual data 839 00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:22,080 um 840 00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:25,080 you know with these cases that that they 841 00:31:30,289 --> 00:31:28,080 you know keep track of these days 842 00:31:32,889 --> 00:31:30,299 because those are things I would I wish 843 00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:32,899 we had I wish we had more on the 844 00:31:37,490 --> 00:31:35,760 electromagnetic data the radar data 845 00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:37,500 which we had a lot more of that stuff 846 00:31:40,850 --> 00:31:38,880 from the old cases but we don't 847 00:31:45,529 --> 00:31:40,860 unfortunately 848 00:31:45,539 --> 00:31:51,789 good cool all right great sorry 849 00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:54,350 why it's not very good for uh when you 850 00:32:06,590 --> 00:32:02,029 you gonna make it 851 00:32:08,810 --> 00:32:06,600 eventually yeah okay okay yeah so okay 852 00:32:11,090 --> 00:32:08,820 yeah that that's you know the question 853 00:32:13,370 --> 00:32:11,100 is really like um is it frustrating 854 00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:13,380 knowing it can only go so far with these 855 00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:15,840 cases it is yeah I mean a lot of cases 856 00:32:20,269 --> 00:32:18,080 are like that you you had a roadblock 857 00:32:21,950 --> 00:32:20,279 yeah you just run out of information 858 00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:21,960 because there isn't anything more to go 859 00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:23,940 on so it can be really really 860 00:32:31,549 --> 00:32:26,820 frustrating here yeah 861 00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:34,430 um similarities like uh 862 00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:36,960 from when the sighting started in 48 to 863 00:32:42,909 --> 00:32:40,140 now you're up to 54. what are some 864 00:32:45,529 --> 00:32:42,919 reoccurring themes that you're seeing 865 00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:45,539 but basically people just didn't know 866 00:32:48,289 --> 00:32:46,799 what they were looking at 867 00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:48,299 um and that's not just the people who 868 00:32:51,649 --> 00:32:49,860 are seeing them but the people who are 869 00:32:53,090 --> 00:32:51,659 investigating them just didn't have a 870 00:32:55,850 --> 00:32:53,100 clue because they don't have any frame 871 00:32:57,649 --> 00:32:55,860 of reference right one of the one of the 872 00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:57,659 kind of the the continuing threads that 873 00:33:03,010 --> 00:33:01,200 I tend to tell in each forward is that 874 00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:03,020 when you go back to the second world war 875 00:33:06,409 --> 00:33:04,620 intelligence people when they were 876 00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:06,419 looking to see what the enemy had and 877 00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:07,440 this is the kind of thing where they 878 00:33:11,210 --> 00:33:09,840 follow you know you just read the enemy 879 00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,220 for ufology 880 00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:13,440 or for UFOs rather so we're trying to 881 00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:14,820 find out what the enemy had in terms of 882 00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:17,220 weapons and you know and all this kind 883 00:33:20,029 --> 00:33:18,960 of stuff and they had bits of 884 00:33:21,889 --> 00:33:20,039 information so they would have 885 00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,899 photographs they would have from aerial 886 00:33:25,070 --> 00:33:23,279 reconnaissance 887 00:33:26,810 --> 00:33:25,080 a lot of Agents on the ground who would 888 00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:26,820 be you know sniffing around looking for 889 00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:28,980 things and sometimes would overhear um 890 00:33:33,169 --> 00:33:31,140 conversations in restaurants or in 891 00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:33,179 factories in in research plants and all 892 00:33:36,350 --> 00:33:35,039 the rest you had agents everywhere or 893 00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:36,360 informers 894 00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:37,919 so a little bit of information would 895 00:33:42,590 --> 00:33:40,260 trickle back to our intelligence and 896 00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:42,600 occasionally like the V2s when they were 897 00:33:46,850 --> 00:33:45,120 testing them one crash in Sweden one 898 00:33:50,269 --> 00:33:46,860 crashed in Poland and the bits were 899 00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:50,279 smuggled by an opposed resistance so 900 00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:52,500 um you know the Allied intelligence 901 00:33:57,470 --> 00:33:55,080 managed to get even parts of of German 902 00:33:59,389 --> 00:33:57,480 Hardware so they could build up a 903 00:34:04,190 --> 00:33:59,399 picture of what was going on with the 904 00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:04,200 secret weapons testing and research UFOs 905 00:34:07,789 --> 00:34:05,820 are something different you know they 906 00:34:08,810 --> 00:34:07,799 don't have this necessarily now I know 907 00:34:10,369 --> 00:34:08,820 with further stories about Crash 908 00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:10,379 retrievals but you have to put that on 909 00:34:15,470 --> 00:34:12,780 one side because it's not proven you can 910 00:34:18,889 --> 00:34:15,480 only go on what is proven right go by 911 00:34:19,970 --> 00:34:18,899 the documentation and basically you know 912 00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:19,980 they don't know what they're looking at 913 00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:21,780 because they haven't got this they 914 00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:24,000 haven't got the kind of windfalls of you 915 00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:26,040 know um proper photographs that actually 916 00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,839 show something concrete 917 00:34:32,089 --> 00:34:30,000 they haven't got bits they can hold and 918 00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,099 go oh yeah this is from such and such 919 00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,560 this fits into this and this does this 920 00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:36,720 and all the rest of it you know that if 921 00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:37,980 they did have anything the chances are 922 00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:38,820 they didn't even know what they were 923 00:34:44,210 --> 00:34:41,879 looking at anyway so yeah 924 00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:44,220 seriously I'm I am really suffering for 925 00:34:48,290 --> 00:34:46,320 some crap at the moment I've just um had 926 00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,300 five days when I've been like 927 00:34:52,909 --> 00:34:50,639 almost covered and it wasn't but I'm 928 00:34:54,770 --> 00:34:52,919 under attack that's good so yeah we 929 00:34:56,270 --> 00:34:54,780 don't have to go for much longer no no 930 00:34:58,430 --> 00:34:56,280 it's fine no no I'm fine I'm getting 931 00:35:00,650 --> 00:34:58,440 better now thank you um I was just after 932 00:35:02,329 --> 00:35:00,660 a little while I get really croaky uh 933 00:35:03,950 --> 00:35:02,339 and also I've just moved house as well 934 00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:03,960 as we were talking about beforehand so 935 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:06,720 I've been um I've been I've never seen 936 00:35:11,349 --> 00:35:08,330 another box again it'll be too soon 937 00:35:13,849 --> 00:35:11,359 [Laughter] 938 00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,859 anyway we have a bunch of boxes of books 939 00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:15,839 at your house by chance 940 00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:19,380 no you just do it all online yeah yeah 941 00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,020 that's good so yeah so they there was 942 00:35:25,010 --> 00:35:23,760 advantages in terms of the war in the 943 00:35:25,970 --> 00:35:25,020 wartime where they had stuff they could 944 00:35:27,950 --> 00:35:25,980 look at 945 00:35:29,870 --> 00:35:27,960 but when you're looking at UFOs they 946 00:35:32,450 --> 00:35:29,880 don't have that luxury of you know 947 00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:32,460 things they can hold things they can see 948 00:35:35,810 --> 00:35:33,900 um they're going on basically saying now 949 00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:35,820 and testimony and even that can be 950 00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:37,680 slightly unreliable because they're 951 00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,839 looking at obviously often civilian uh 952 00:35:44,510 --> 00:35:41,520 you know sources and even the military 953 00:35:47,089 --> 00:35:44,520 sources there's not enough to go on 954 00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:47,099 and for the best will in the world if 955 00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:48,720 you're if all the kind of like the 956 00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:50,460 description is effectively the vague 957 00:35:52,730 --> 00:35:51,599 light in the sky which they can't even 958 00:35:54,829 --> 00:35:52,740 tell how big it is because they can't 959 00:35:56,810 --> 00:35:54,839 tell how far away it is 960 00:35:59,450 --> 00:35:56,820 um and it's not doing anything hazardous 961 00:36:00,890 --> 00:35:59,460 to the airplane then you know what do 962 00:36:03,170 --> 00:36:00,900 you do after you get cut even if you get 963 00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,180 yourself the case it doesn't build up 964 00:36:07,010 --> 00:36:05,520 too much in the end I know that's a 965 00:36:08,810 --> 00:36:07,020 horrible thing to say from you from 966 00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:08,820 somebody who's really interested in UFOs 967 00:36:13,069 --> 00:36:11,640 but when you look at the sum total of 968 00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:13,079 information that these people had to 969 00:36:16,370 --> 00:36:15,060 work with it's no wonder that they 970 00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:16,380 couldn't come up with anything concrete 971 00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:17,520 because there just simply isn't enough 972 00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:18,960 to go what do yeah what are you supposed 973 00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:21,240 to do I mean a lot of the sightings they 974 00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:23,940 seem for two to three seconds it's gone 975 00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,640 they have a description but it's gone 976 00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:28,320 you can't go back there and look at it 977 00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:31,200 you can't you know tell it to stop by 978 00:36:36,349 --> 00:36:33,180 your office after a shift or whatever 979 00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:36,359 like you know even though even the 980 00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:37,680 longer sightings like that's why I 981 00:36:41,630 --> 00:36:39,240 mentioned the George Gorman dog fights 982 00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:41,640 from the range to a 48. I mean he was he 983 00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:44,880 was like for minutes and even then they 984 00:36:48,349 --> 00:36:46,079 don't have enough information they just 985 00:36:50,690 --> 00:36:48,359 have enough on this thing includes just 986 00:36:52,490 --> 00:36:50,700 a light basically so you know what do 987 00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:52,500 you do so it's really it's really 988 00:36:57,950 --> 00:36:55,980 strange well I'm hoping that you know we 989 00:36:59,569 --> 00:36:57,960 have more technology these days to get 990 00:37:02,270 --> 00:36:59,579 better information from these things 991 00:37:04,430 --> 00:37:02,280 than we did back then you know that's 992 00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:04,440 for sure because even then with the 993 00:37:07,550 --> 00:37:06,420 technology we had we would pick up stuff 994 00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:07,560 but 995 00:37:12,589 --> 00:37:10,200 uh you know it was it was never it was 996 00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,599 never enough like you know you'd find 997 00:37:18,170 --> 00:37:14,880 these investigators in situations where 998 00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:18,180 somebody saw something visually and they 999 00:37:23,210 --> 00:37:21,119 picked it up on radar 1000 00:37:25,250 --> 00:37:23,220 um and sometimes the documents will even 1001 00:37:28,190 --> 00:37:25,260 say it you know they they correlated 1002 00:37:29,870 --> 00:37:28,200 really well the visual and the radar but 1003 00:37:31,790 --> 00:37:29,880 yet still 1004 00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:31,800 you know that the investigators always 1005 00:37:36,770 --> 00:37:34,800 separate the two things right and and 1006 00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:36,780 call the the radar thing temperature 1007 00:37:42,109 --> 00:37:39,839 inversion anomalous propagation and the 1008 00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:42,119 visual was like the moon or Venus and 1009 00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:43,980 you know but then they would try to 1010 00:37:48,109 --> 00:37:46,260 claim that they were open open-minded in 1011 00:37:51,069 --> 00:37:48,119 their investigations you know which is 1012 00:37:53,390 --> 00:37:51,079 just so for this movement 1013 00:37:56,690 --> 00:37:53,400 for this book I've started including a 1014 00:37:57,589 --> 00:37:56,700 few right of the radar visual cases oh I 1015 00:37:59,210 --> 00:37:57,599 think they're really I really think 1016 00:38:00,890 --> 00:37:59,220 they're really important the previous 1017 00:38:02,150 --> 00:38:00,900 the previous two books in the series I 1018 00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:02,160 saw it shied away from that a bit 1019 00:38:04,970 --> 00:38:03,599 because I thought you know there's quite 1020 00:38:06,530 --> 00:38:04,980 a lot here already and I don't want to 1021 00:38:07,970 --> 00:38:06,540 like just you know add to it but this 1022 00:38:09,650 --> 00:38:07,980 time around I've actually put them in 1023 00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:09,660 and it's true exactly what you said 1024 00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:12,300 there about them to try to split the you 1025 00:38:15,890 --> 00:38:14,160 know the radar on the visual side and 1026 00:38:17,150 --> 00:38:15,900 call them two different things that that 1027 00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:17,160 actually that happened quite a few times 1028 00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:18,839 and you'll see that when when you read 1029 00:38:23,630 --> 00:38:21,420 it yeah so you've read it already but 1030 00:38:26,030 --> 00:38:23,640 you know for your audience when they 1031 00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:26,040 read it they'll see that blue book often 1032 00:38:29,450 --> 00:38:28,020 said yes you know there's something 1033 00:38:31,609 --> 00:38:29,460 wrong with the system was a it's a 1034 00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:31,619 propagation and then they've seen Venus 1035 00:38:37,410 --> 00:38:33,599 before they've seen Mars you know it's 1036 00:38:41,329 --> 00:38:39,530 [Music] 1037 00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:41,339 um what do you think is important about 1038 00:38:48,109 --> 00:38:44,240 this book what should people know 1039 00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:49,849 these are cases where a lot of the time 1040 00:38:53,930 --> 00:38:51,839 people haven't read before so it's 1041 00:38:56,270 --> 00:38:53,940 there's always something new in here but 1042 00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:56,280 it's more just the reinforcement that 1043 00:38:59,450 --> 00:38:57,599 you know there's a lot of history to 1044 00:39:02,750 --> 00:38:59,460 ethology it's not just the current stuff 1045 00:39:04,190 --> 00:39:02,760 it's not just the the the the the Nimitz 1046 00:39:05,890 --> 00:39:04,200 and candles it's not just the stuff off 1047 00:39:08,810 --> 00:39:05,900 the east coast and the West Coast right 1048 00:39:10,970 --> 00:39:08,820 it's not even just the abduction uh the 1049 00:39:13,069 --> 00:39:10,980 the experience of stuff there's a lot of 1050 00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:13,079 Rich history that really people haven't 1051 00:39:16,609 --> 00:39:14,460 gone into before 1052 00:39:21,950 --> 00:39:16,619 yeah 1053 00:39:23,569 --> 00:39:21,960 have you come across any cases where 1054 00:39:24,349 --> 00:39:23,579 you know there was 1055 00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:24,359 um 1056 00:39:29,930 --> 00:39:26,400 any of the high strangeness that we hear 1057 00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:29,940 about like um you know my my face felt 1058 00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:31,980 hot and was burning or or whatever 1059 00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:34,800 whatever it may be so this is the 1060 00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,040 walesville um where the Jet crash 1061 00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:41,040 um it's um that happened and there's a 1062 00:39:45,530 --> 00:39:43,680 there's a a part of that story which is 1063 00:39:46,849 --> 00:39:45,540 again it's not one of these things can 1064 00:39:49,250 --> 00:39:46,859 be proven 1065 00:39:51,530 --> 00:39:49,260 but it allege that 1066 00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:51,540 um the the UFO that this jet was chasing 1067 00:39:56,750 --> 00:39:54,000 uh fired some kind of heat rate at the 1068 00:39:58,370 --> 00:39:56,760 at the f-94 Starfighter 1069 00:40:00,109 --> 00:39:58,380 um and it caused the you know the the 1070 00:40:02,450 --> 00:40:00,119 temperature in the inside the cockpit to 1071 00:40:04,370 --> 00:40:02,460 go up so hard that they had to eject 1072 00:40:06,890 --> 00:40:04,380 um now the the crew actually survived 1073 00:40:09,770 --> 00:40:06,900 there the crash but the aircraft crashed 1074 00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:09,780 on a small town uh and it killed some 1075 00:40:14,569 --> 00:40:12,240 people on the ground uh which is an ulti 1076 00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:14,579 region really fortunate and it's only 1077 00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:16,020 ever been trapped as a kind of an 1078 00:40:20,450 --> 00:40:17,640 aircraft crashed by the military because 1079 00:40:22,730 --> 00:40:20,460 that actually happened 1080 00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:22,740 um but it's like a lot of other like 1081 00:40:27,230 --> 00:40:24,960 some other stories in ufology you know 1082 00:40:29,089 --> 00:40:27,240 it's had this UFO element attached to it 1083 00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:29,099 now whether that's true or not I don't 1084 00:40:31,310 --> 00:40:30,000 know 1085 00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:31,320 um and it's quite an engaging tale 1086 00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:32,220 anyway 1087 00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:34,260 um even if you take that pill out of it 1088 00:40:38,990 --> 00:40:36,540 but it does have this kind of little 1089 00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:39,000 element where it's I suppose yeah well 1090 00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:40,680 that definitely High strangeness in so 1091 00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:41,880 much as you know there's kind of an 1092 00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,440 interaction and maybe a kind of 1093 00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:45,599 belligerent interaction as well 1094 00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:47,220 um I'd say I I can't say whether it's 1095 00:40:51,290 --> 00:40:48,720 true or not but it's an it's an 1096 00:40:52,970 --> 00:40:51,300 interesting little kind of feel addition 1097 00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,980 to the story 1098 00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,960 um which is an interesting story anyway 1099 00:40:57,890 --> 00:40:56,400 but then again you've got other cases in 1100 00:41:00,770 --> 00:40:57,900 the past where there's been and you know 1101 00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:00,780 this kind of extra element involved 1102 00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:02,520 um you just have to wonder 1103 00:41:06,890 --> 00:41:04,079 um of course another famous one from 1104 00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:06,900 from this book is November 53 with the 1105 00:41:12,410 --> 00:41:09,599 um the f89 Scorpion that was lost over 1106 00:41:16,010 --> 00:41:12,420 uh well your neck of the woods basically 1107 00:41:17,950 --> 00:41:16,020 yeah wow yeah that's a that's an amazing 1108 00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:17,960 one 1109 00:41:23,690 --> 00:41:21,359 have you noticed the investigators 1110 00:41:26,450 --> 00:41:23,700 um treat these Witnesses in any specific 1111 00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:26,460 way especially the more bizarre the the 1112 00:41:32,329 --> 00:41:30,780 story is I think sometimes yeah I think 1113 00:41:34,310 --> 00:41:32,339 it is difficult to tell because you 1114 00:41:37,250 --> 00:41:34,320 don't necessarily go privy to the 1115 00:41:39,170 --> 00:41:37,260 questioning right yeah all you see is 1116 00:41:40,910 --> 00:41:39,180 the answers 1117 00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:40,920 um most of the time you'll get you know 1118 00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:42,900 the answers which are on the um on the 1119 00:41:46,190 --> 00:41:44,880 intelligence documents 1120 00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:46,200 um so you'll get the other Testament 1121 00:41:49,730 --> 00:41:47,520 you'll get a statement from the 1122 00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,740 witnesses occasionally you'll get a 1123 00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:51,359 question answer but it's very very few 1124 00:41:58,250 --> 00:41:55,130 okay 1125 00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:58,260 yeah you don't get a sense of the actual 1126 00:42:02,690 --> 00:42:00,420 you know how the questioning went 1127 00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:02,700 um there once or twice there is a 1128 00:42:06,530 --> 00:42:04,560 there's an example in the book where one 1129 00:42:09,050 --> 00:42:06,540 of the pilots I was actually a civilian 1130 00:42:11,630 --> 00:42:09,060 pilot and he was questioning how the 1131 00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:11,640 questions were asked in the question 1132 00:42:14,450 --> 00:42:13,200 there 1133 00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:14,460 um you know the official Blue Book 1134 00:42:17,569 --> 00:42:15,839 questionnaire that went out to pilots 1135 00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:17,579 and you know which you know which had 1136 00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:19,200 all these lists of stuff about um you 1137 00:42:22,609 --> 00:42:20,400 know what the scene and how they've seen 1138 00:42:23,810 --> 00:42:22,619 it and all the rest of it and um it was 1139 00:42:25,730 --> 00:42:23,820 apparently the way that the 1140 00:42:28,190 --> 00:42:25,740 questionnaire was was kind of written 1141 00:42:30,170 --> 00:42:28,200 was to weed out a whole load of stuff 1142 00:42:32,750 --> 00:42:30,180 that you know might have 1143 00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:32,760 um like made the fact that we're making 1144 00:42:36,170 --> 00:42:34,800 things up or something like that 1145 00:42:38,450 --> 00:42:36,180 um and this guy had obviously seen 1146 00:42:40,210 --> 00:42:38,460 through a lot of that and he was quite 1147 00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:40,220 annoyed about how the way the questions 1148 00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:43,440 and you know it it'd written some fairly 1149 00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:45,540 pointed answers as to like saying why 1150 00:42:49,250 --> 00:42:47,640 are you asking this you know that's not 1151 00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:49,260 the way to ask this question all this 1152 00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:52,140 kind of stuff so yeah he'd seen through 1153 00:42:55,370 --> 00:42:53,760 the way they were doing it 1154 00:42:57,230 --> 00:42:55,380 um and they'd actually realized that 1155 00:42:59,210 --> 00:42:57,240 there had to be a bit more kind of cagey 1156 00:43:00,650 --> 00:42:59,220 about you know how they did it 1157 00:43:03,170 --> 00:43:00,660 um so yeah there was a bit of that as 1158 00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:03,180 well which is really really weird Okay 1159 00:43:07,370 --> 00:43:05,220 so so who is 1160 00:43:10,430 --> 00:43:07,380 I guess what let's get to this question 1161 00:43:12,050 --> 00:43:10,440 from Jose hi Joe thanks for asking the 1162 00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:12,060 question did Graham notice a shape 1163 00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,800 difference between UFOs then and now 1164 00:43:19,550 --> 00:43:18,480 or it's been different all the times in 1165 00:43:21,710 --> 00:43:19,560 the Years 1166 00:43:23,210 --> 00:43:21,720 um yeah I mean you got the same type you 1167 00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:23,220 get the same well there's a there's one 1168 00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:25,800 the bottom there you got um you got the 1169 00:43:29,210 --> 00:43:27,839 same types that occur time and time 1170 00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,220 again 1171 00:43:32,569 --> 00:43:31,440 you know nowadays what they call you 1172 00:43:36,290 --> 00:43:32,579 know um 1173 00:43:38,690 --> 00:43:36,300 the the Tic Tac shape all the time the 1174 00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:38,700 Tic Tac shape you could almost the old 1175 00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:40,260 cigar shape because that used to be a 1176 00:43:43,849 --> 00:43:42,000 phrase that I used to use a lot that was 1177 00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:43,859 fabulous yeah 1178 00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:45,960 especially I used to read the from the 1179 00:43:50,809 --> 00:43:48,720 books from the 60s and 70s cigar shape 1180 00:43:53,930 --> 00:43:50,819 UFOs were a thing I guess you could call 1181 00:43:57,650 --> 00:43:53,940 it a cigar shaped uh a Tic Tac or a 1182 00:43:59,870 --> 00:43:57,660 torpedo shaped craft a tick tock so uh 1183 00:44:03,290 --> 00:43:59,880 torpedo ships go back to the 1940 early 1184 00:44:04,910 --> 00:44:03,300 even early 1940s reports so things can 1185 00:44:06,109 --> 00:44:04,920 be called slightly different things but 1186 00:44:07,609 --> 00:44:06,119 actually essentially they might be the 1187 00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:07,619 same thing but then you've got other 1188 00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,000 stuff as well haven't you you've got the 1189 00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:11,280 classic kind of dome-shaped stuff you've 1190 00:44:15,890 --> 00:44:13,680 got you know big cigars you've got um 1191 00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:15,900 cubes with circles in them or whatever 1192 00:44:18,770 --> 00:44:17,400 and there's a whole load of things in 1193 00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:18,780 between you know you name it there's 1194 00:44:35,770 --> 00:44:20,880 probably a cone-shaped heart-shaped 1195 00:44:40,010 --> 00:44:38,089 you could come up with a huge list of 1196 00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:40,020 shapes and sizes yeah I'm sure 1197 00:44:43,250 --> 00:44:41,760 everybody's seen a chart there are 1198 00:44:44,930 --> 00:44:43,260 charts that appear on Twitter every so 1199 00:44:48,109 --> 00:44:44,940 often here with all the different shapes 1200 00:44:49,309 --> 00:44:48,119 and sizes so there's a lot of them why 1201 00:44:52,190 --> 00:44:49,319 do you think there's such a difference 1202 00:44:53,450 --> 00:44:52,200 in in is it well is it because it's a 1203 00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:53,460 multiple species because they're all 1204 00:44:57,470 --> 00:44:54,960 different roles is it because it's our 1205 00:44:59,329 --> 00:44:57,480 perception right you know the jury's out 1206 00:45:01,250 --> 00:44:59,339 on all of them so I don't know what's 1207 00:45:02,530 --> 00:45:01,260 the answer you know I'm not an expert I 1208 00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:02,540 write about these things but I don't 1209 00:45:11,589 --> 00:45:06,000 respond about them so you know in terms 1210 00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:14,930 the people who are seeing them so I 1211 00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:17,880 guess we don't get multiple sightings in 1212 00:45:22,370 --> 00:45:19,980 such as we'll get one who says it's one 1213 00:45:24,109 --> 00:45:22,380 thing and one who says it's another so 1214 00:45:25,970 --> 00:45:24,119 that would be the asset test wouldn't it 1215 00:45:27,230 --> 00:45:25,980 be for perception so if you've got like 1216 00:45:29,450 --> 00:45:27,240 a multiple sighting where you have to 1217 00:45:32,030 --> 00:45:29,460 say 30 people saw something and 10 1218 00:45:34,790 --> 00:45:32,040 people saw a cigar and 20 and five 1219 00:45:37,790 --> 00:45:34,800 people saw a top hat and yeah yeah then 1220 00:45:40,130 --> 00:45:37,800 you would then know it was perception it 1221 00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,140 very rarely goes that way no it doesn't 1222 00:45:43,790 --> 00:45:42,480 no so most of the time when they see 1223 00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:43,800 something like the Phoenix Lights let's 1224 00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:45,180 say which was what thousands of people 1225 00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:47,520 it was like v-shape wasn't it so 1226 00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:49,500 everybody seems to see the same thing 1227 00:45:52,609 --> 00:45:50,880 but it just so happens that was a 1228 00:45:55,970 --> 00:45:52,619 different shape than than other stuff 1229 00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:55,980 that's being seen in life so who knows I 1230 00:46:00,829 --> 00:45:58,079 don't know I happen to think humans are 1231 00:46:02,630 --> 00:46:00,839 actually pretty good observers 1232 00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:02,640 um it's just that sometimes they don't 1233 00:46:06,890 --> 00:46:04,319 know what they're observing but actually 1234 00:46:09,470 --> 00:46:06,900 describing where they're looking or what 1235 00:46:13,010 --> 00:46:09,480 the color shape is generally is pretty 1236 00:46:14,510 --> 00:46:13,020 good yeah you know yeah so Berwick oh 1237 00:46:16,329 --> 00:46:14,520 the Berwick Mountain Landing or the or 1238 00:46:18,410 --> 00:46:16,339 the Berwin Mountain ending rather 1239 00:46:20,270 --> 00:46:18,420 somebody's asked me about there as well 1240 00:46:23,089 --> 00:46:20,280 so yeah there's a there's a good book on 1241 00:46:25,069 --> 00:46:23,099 that which Andy Roberts wrote 1242 00:46:27,050 --> 00:46:25,079 um and I've got it and I haven't read it 1243 00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:27,060 yet and I really want to read it before 1244 00:46:31,730 --> 00:46:29,520 I sort of you know talk a bit more about 1245 00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,740 that case but it's it's supposed to be 1246 00:46:35,930 --> 00:46:33,599 like the is it the Welsh Roswell or 1247 00:46:37,609 --> 00:46:35,940 something uh where there might have been 1248 00:46:39,170 --> 00:46:37,619 some kind of build your involvement on a 1249 00:46:40,849 --> 00:46:39,180 hillside with something that might have 1250 00:46:42,770 --> 00:46:40,859 crashed or landed all the rest of it 1251 00:46:44,210 --> 00:46:42,780 it's a it's a it's an interesting one 1252 00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:44,220 it's one of those cases we haven't 1253 00:46:47,150 --> 00:46:45,780 mentioned before about we'll say you 1254 00:46:49,069 --> 00:46:47,160 know a bit about a case but you don't 1255 00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:49,079 know the whole ins and outs of it that's 1256 00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:50,880 one of them yeah 1257 00:46:55,849 --> 00:46:53,280 it there's so many of these Landing 1258 00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,859 stories if you come across a landing or 1259 00:47:00,410 --> 00:46:58,079 a crash story that um 1260 00:47:02,750 --> 00:47:00,420 you know is 1261 00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:02,760 um I guess I don't know what what's the 1262 00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:05,280 best crash story that you've heard you 1263 00:47:11,690 --> 00:47:08,720 know other than Roswell 1264 00:47:13,069 --> 00:47:11,700 which I don't even know no one knew if 1265 00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:13,079 you would say that would be a best one 1266 00:47:18,109 --> 00:47:16,740 but if you heard a really good one well 1267 00:47:20,750 --> 00:47:18,119 yeah I mean if you go about the Foo 1268 00:47:22,849 --> 00:47:20,760 Fighters book there's a the one that was 1269 00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:22,859 uh the landing on the North Coast of 1270 00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:25,800 Poland in July 1943 1271 00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:28,319 um and the and it was a it was a French 1272 00:47:32,750 --> 00:47:30,540 um kind of uh conscripted worker and he 1273 00:47:34,130 --> 00:47:32,760 was working at this place uh in Poland 1274 00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:34,140 and he was walking through the sand 1275 00:47:37,309 --> 00:47:35,520 dunes one day and he came across this 1276 00:47:40,010 --> 00:47:37,319 this craft it was half buried in the 1277 00:47:42,109 --> 00:47:40,020 sand with a female pilot and that's 1278 00:47:43,730 --> 00:47:42,119 possibly the one where it's just like 1279 00:47:45,050 --> 00:47:43,740 there's so much to do with this story 1280 00:47:47,089 --> 00:47:45,060 because it was quite detailed in this 1281 00:47:48,829 --> 00:47:47,099 description uh it was all in French 1282 00:47:52,190 --> 00:47:48,839 obviously where you know translated it 1283 00:47:54,410 --> 00:47:52,200 but uh it's quite an intriguing tale 1284 00:47:56,089 --> 00:47:54,420 um and it wasn't the only UFO you reckon 1285 00:47:58,370 --> 00:47:56,099 you ever saw you saw one two years 1286 00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:58,380 earlier in France so 1287 00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:00,960 in terms of Landing stories that one's 1288 00:48:04,430 --> 00:48:02,400 really interesting because it's actually 1289 00:48:07,069 --> 00:48:04,440 during the second World War uh for one 1290 00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:07,079 thing it's long before Roswell so all 1291 00:48:12,770 --> 00:48:09,720 the things going on there yeah 1292 00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:12,780 interesting yeah it's always hard to you 1293 00:48:18,170 --> 00:48:15,780 know I never know how to take the crash 1294 00:48:20,990 --> 00:48:18,180 cases and you know whether they're 1295 00:48:22,849 --> 00:48:21,000 contact cases or just simply a pilot who 1296 00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:22,859 who's seen something and even radar 1297 00:48:27,170 --> 00:48:25,200 picked it up all these cases they'll 1298 00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:27,180 leave you in the same spot all the time 1299 00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,000 yeah you know and a lot of the times the 1300 00:48:34,010 --> 00:48:31,920 bizarre ones if you first if you just 1301 00:48:36,170 --> 00:48:34,020 for a second forget about some of the 1302 00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:36,180 bizarre details and how bizarre they are 1303 00:48:40,970 --> 00:48:39,300 to you and just simply look at the case 1304 00:48:43,609 --> 00:48:40,980 it's sometimes they're just so 1305 00:48:45,530 --> 00:48:43,619 convincing multiple people have seen the 1306 00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:45,540 crazy thing or like I just wrote about 1307 00:48:50,990 --> 00:48:49,140 this case in ramore Canada 1308 00:48:54,190 --> 00:48:51,000 um where there were three sets of 1309 00:48:57,650 --> 00:48:54,200 sightings in in this uh long distance 1310 00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:57,660 radar range that uh the United States 1311 00:49:04,250 --> 00:49:01,440 Air Force was in in 1953 and 1312 00:49:06,290 --> 00:49:04,260 so it's the same time period so these 1313 00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:06,300 three different sets of sightings with 1314 00:49:10,550 --> 00:49:07,680 different people 1315 00:49:11,690 --> 00:49:10,560 actually one person was there for two of 1316 00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:11,700 the sightings 1317 00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:14,400 but then one guy 1318 00:49:20,990 --> 00:49:16,800 uh and they describe an egg Shake egg 1319 00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:21,000 shaped object 1953 and uh this one guy 1320 00:49:27,470 --> 00:49:24,319 one of the Air Force people actually 1321 00:49:30,650 --> 00:49:27,480 said and testified and signed his 1322 00:49:33,650 --> 00:49:30,660 foreign affidavit that he saw this 1323 00:49:36,130 --> 00:49:33,660 creature come out and talk to him with 1324 00:49:38,050 --> 00:49:36,140 two heads 1325 00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:38,060 and 1326 00:49:44,089 --> 00:49:41,040 then somebody said in their testimony 1327 00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:44,099 that this person was alone and they 1328 00:49:50,410 --> 00:49:47,040 found him and he was in complete shock 1329 00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:53,990 Airmen you know like wow if I saw 1330 00:49:56,510 --> 00:49:55,200 somebody with two heads I think you 1331 00:49:59,150 --> 00:49:56,520 might find me lying on the ground with 1332 00:50:01,250 --> 00:49:59,160 shock as well so I can I can sort of 1333 00:50:05,390 --> 00:50:01,260 well relate but you know if you take 1334 00:50:08,750 --> 00:50:05,400 that detail out of it you know and like 1335 00:50:11,450 --> 00:50:08,760 if there is nobody yeah 1336 00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:11,460 it's there's multiple people saying that 1337 00:50:14,809 --> 00:50:13,200 they're seeing something multiple people 1338 00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:14,819 said that this guy was alone and was 1339 00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:16,980 shocked when they found him he signed 1340 00:50:20,930 --> 00:50:18,540 his foreign affidavit that he's seen 1341 00:50:24,290 --> 00:50:20,940 this thing if it wasn't for the bizarre 1342 00:50:30,010 --> 00:50:24,300 part of the two heads like whatever the 1343 00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:32,210 it'll have this really outrageous bit 1344 00:50:36,410 --> 00:50:34,380 tucked onto it and that's the bit of the 1345 00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:36,420 papers always leap onto because it's 1346 00:50:40,370 --> 00:50:38,700 your most Sensational part of it uh in 1347 00:50:42,410 --> 00:50:40,380 your writing if you strip that bit off 1348 00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:42,420 then you know it's against everyone 1349 00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:45,359 anywhere quite a good case it wasn't 1350 00:50:50,089 --> 00:50:48,720 publicized you know or anything I don't 1351 00:50:52,010 --> 00:50:50,099 think I've come across it myself so I'm 1352 00:50:53,569 --> 00:50:52,020 gonna have to look for that one the only 1353 00:50:55,549 --> 00:50:53,579 thing I can think of is like what if 1354 00:50:58,510 --> 00:50:55,559 what if the guy wanted to just like get 1355 00:51:00,890 --> 00:50:58,520 kicked out of that Air Force 1356 00:51:04,010 --> 00:51:00,900 yeah he's trying to go for the military 1357 00:51:07,549 --> 00:51:04,020 version of being sectioned 1358 00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:07,559 but you know I don't know so what are 1359 00:51:11,210 --> 00:51:09,599 you thinking of the the UFO World these 1360 00:51:12,770 --> 00:51:11,220 days uh people are talking about 1361 00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:12,780 hearings and everything what are your 1362 00:51:16,849 --> 00:51:15,359 thoughts on the hearings from for what 1363 00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:16,859 I'm aware of there doesn't seem to be 1364 00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,020 any hard and fast kind of you know sort 1365 00:51:23,630 --> 00:51:21,599 of timetable or whether they're going to 1366 00:51:25,309 --> 00:51:23,640 have them in open or closed session or 1367 00:51:27,290 --> 00:51:25,319 who's going to be doing it who's going 1368 00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:27,300 to be turning up all the rest of it I 1369 00:51:30,290 --> 00:51:28,440 think it's we'll just have to wait and 1370 00:51:31,849 --> 00:51:30,300 see like a lot of things and we'll be 1371 00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:31,859 really surprised when it happens we'll 1372 00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:34,559 be really happy for 24 hours yeah it'll 1373 00:51:38,210 --> 00:51:36,720 be really cool for the last month 1374 00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:38,220 afterwards because 100 we don't get what 1375 00:51:43,849 --> 00:51:41,040 we want so yeah yeah it'll be like last 1376 00:51:44,930 --> 00:51:43,859 time they'll try they'll wheel out a 1377 00:51:47,089 --> 00:51:44,940 couple of 1378 00:51:49,130 --> 00:51:47,099 so you're you're saying if it happens 1379 00:51:51,710 --> 00:51:49,140 you're a pessimist about it 1380 00:51:53,330 --> 00:51:51,720 I'm an optimistic pessimist or a 1381 00:51:56,109 --> 00:51:53,340 pessimistic optimistic 1382 00:51:59,569 --> 00:51:56,119 [Laughter] 1383 00:52:01,309 --> 00:51:59,579 oh good but you're optimistic it'll 1384 00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:01,319 happen pessimistic we'll get anything 1385 00:52:10,130 --> 00:52:08,390 most things isn't it you can't you can't 1386 00:52:11,450 --> 00:52:10,140 dilute the expectations up too high 1387 00:52:13,730 --> 00:52:11,460 because you know full well you're going 1388 00:52:15,650 --> 00:52:13,740 to be disappointed so if you stop very 1389 00:52:18,290 --> 00:52:15,660 low then you can only get better after 1390 00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:18,300 that so any information that you get is 1391 00:52:22,730 --> 00:52:21,359 a bonus so the way I I my defaults you 1392 00:52:24,410 --> 00:52:22,740 know um kind of setting for most of 1393 00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:24,420 these things is well yeah I'll believe 1394 00:52:28,130 --> 00:52:26,160 it when it happens and then when it 1395 00:52:29,630 --> 00:52:28,140 happens I'll believe it if they give me 1396 00:52:31,130 --> 00:52:29,640 something good and then if they give me 1397 00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:31,140 something good okay I'll believe it if 1398 00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:33,119 it leaves them anything you know and 1399 00:52:36,290 --> 00:52:35,160 that's how it goes on so you know I'm 1400 00:52:38,690 --> 00:52:36,300 not going to get I'm not going to sit 1401 00:52:40,670 --> 00:52:38,700 here and get really really excited about 1402 00:52:42,890 --> 00:52:40,680 this stuff like that because you know 1403 00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:42,900 we've been there before and we've seen 1404 00:52:47,089 --> 00:52:44,880 what happened I mean don't get me wrong 1405 00:52:49,010 --> 00:52:47,099 it's great that it's happening 1406 00:52:52,490 --> 00:52:49,020 it happened last time you were last May 1407 00:52:53,870 --> 00:52:52,500 but I think it didn't really push the 1408 00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:53,880 ball forward as far as we thought it was 1409 00:52:57,410 --> 00:52:55,200 going there we didn't it didn't set the 1410 00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:57,420 world on fire it you know it didn't like 1411 00:53:01,250 --> 00:52:59,760 kind of tie up the news agenda for uh 1412 00:53:03,710 --> 00:53:01,260 you know for the next week sort of thing 1413 00:53:04,970 --> 00:53:03,720 so we've got to have a bit more of that 1414 00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:04,980 and it's just going to be the point 1415 00:53:08,390 --> 00:53:06,000 where it's going to be a bit more 1416 00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:08,400 credible as well the experts themselves 1417 00:53:11,870 --> 00:53:10,319 have to be more credible because they 1418 00:53:12,829 --> 00:53:11,880 didn't know that well here's another 1419 00:53:15,650 --> 00:53:12,839 phrase for you they didn't know their 1420 00:53:17,809 --> 00:53:15,660 ass from their elbow you know so 1421 00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:17,819 um that you know asking them about 1422 00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:19,440 malnstrom they didn't know what a 1423 00:53:23,450 --> 00:53:21,240 monster was I mean presumably knew where 1424 00:53:24,829 --> 00:53:23,460 it was because it was an active base but 1425 00:53:26,329 --> 00:53:24,839 did they know what's happening there 1426 00:53:28,370 --> 00:53:26,339 apparently not and yet they were 1427 00:53:30,890 --> 00:53:28,380 supposed to be experts in UFOs so yeah 1428 00:53:32,510 --> 00:53:30,900 and that was not the only case during 1429 00:53:34,970 --> 00:53:32,520 those years that 1430 00:53:37,309 --> 00:53:34,980 no it wasn't the UFO cases and weird 1431 00:53:38,450 --> 00:53:37,319 stuff I mean thankfully now that they're 1432 00:53:40,309 --> 00:53:38,460 addressing it because they're getting 1433 00:53:42,910 --> 00:53:40,319 people like Salas to come forward and 1434 00:53:45,049 --> 00:53:42,920 and give their testimony yeah 1435 00:53:46,849 --> 00:53:45,059 what do you think comes from that though 1436 00:53:49,130 --> 00:53:46,859 you know like Robert sells comes to you 1437 00:53:52,190 --> 00:53:49,140 and tells you in this story uh 1438 00:53:54,530 --> 00:53:52,200 compelling story great Witnesses 1439 00:53:56,750 --> 00:53:54,540 everything but but at the end of it like 1440 00:53:58,970 --> 00:53:56,760 what do what do you do with that it 1441 00:54:01,370 --> 00:53:58,980 depends on who here you know I think as 1442 00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:01,380 well because you know it's got to get 1443 00:54:05,390 --> 00:54:03,960 the right people it can't just fall in 1444 00:54:07,490 --> 00:54:05,400 deaf ears so if you're talking to people 1445 00:54:09,049 --> 00:54:07,500 who have a fixed kind of view about all 1446 00:54:10,190 --> 00:54:09,059 this way there's nothing to it we're 1447 00:54:12,290 --> 00:54:10,200 going through the motions of the pop 1448 00:54:14,089 --> 00:54:12,300 technical exercise about how we're 1449 00:54:15,470 --> 00:54:14,099 Consulting the other public or the 1450 00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:15,480 Consulting with the people who are 1451 00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:17,460 advocating for UFO transparency all the 1452 00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:19,200 rest of it and if that happens if that's 1453 00:54:23,390 --> 00:54:20,880 all we're going to be you know sort of 1454 00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:23,400 working with then this stuff is just 1455 00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:25,200 going to go in one ear and go out the 1456 00:54:28,730 --> 00:54:26,640 other and they're going to make a big 1457 00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:28,740 fun dance about oh you know we listened 1458 00:54:32,990 --> 00:54:30,540 we're taking action the usual kind of 1459 00:54:35,870 --> 00:54:33,000 something here from politicians that 1460 00:54:37,849 --> 00:54:35,880 it'll be quietly just be shelved kind of 1461 00:54:40,069 --> 00:54:37,859 or just a minimum amount of work being 1462 00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:40,079 done in a minimum money being thrown in 1463 00:54:44,930 --> 00:54:41,940 it as well whereas you get people who 1464 00:54:46,130 --> 00:54:44,940 are actually want answers whatever those 1465 00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:46,140 answers are 1466 00:54:49,730 --> 00:54:48,480 then you might get somewhere and you 1467 00:54:51,890 --> 00:54:49,740 might get it pushed towards something 1468 00:54:54,109 --> 00:54:51,900 but we've got there's a mindset in the 1469 00:54:57,230 --> 00:54:54,119 US Air Force and elsewhere that 1470 00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:57,240 steadfastly refused to budge from the 1471 00:55:01,730 --> 00:54:59,040 position that they've had for how many 1472 00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,740 years now this is an interesting comment 1473 00:55:05,569 --> 00:55:03,599 how do you feel about this do you think 1474 00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:05,579 newer Generations are more inclined to 1475 00:55:09,530 --> 00:55:07,680 listen I do actually because they don't 1476 00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:09,540 have the you know the how Bound by the 1477 00:55:12,770 --> 00:55:11,280 stigma of previous years but 1478 00:55:14,569 --> 00:55:12,780 unfortunately right you have to wonder 1479 00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:14,579 who The Gatekeepers are because The 1480 00:55:18,410 --> 00:55:16,260 Gatekeepers if there are such things 1481 00:55:20,510 --> 00:55:18,420 then they pass that on you know the 1482 00:55:22,790 --> 00:55:20,520 battle on to newer people and those new 1483 00:55:24,829 --> 00:55:22,800 people are indoctrinated into whatever 1484 00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,839 you know kind of mindset that there's 1485 00:55:27,890 --> 00:55:26,640 been for how long 1486 00:55:29,569 --> 00:55:27,900 um you just have to wonder who actually 1487 00:55:31,849 --> 00:55:29,579 does then you know take up the reins 1488 00:55:34,549 --> 00:55:31,859 each time there's a change in in command 1489 00:55:37,010 --> 00:55:34,559 or something everyone said to them you 1490 00:55:38,990 --> 00:55:37,020 know is it so desperate to believe 1491 00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:39,000 though you know I haven't gone through 1492 00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:40,559 all these cases I'm sure you could agree 1493 00:55:45,650 --> 00:55:43,260 with me like you don't see a spot for 1494 00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:45,660 that in any of the documents you know 1495 00:55:49,790 --> 00:55:47,119 you don't 1496 00:55:52,609 --> 00:55:49,800 and all these people would have to be in 1497 00:55:54,770 --> 00:55:52,619 on the fact that this is a cover-up and 1498 00:55:56,270 --> 00:55:54,780 this is why I don't which is why I don't 1499 00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:56,280 necessarily buy into a huge amount 1500 00:56:00,349 --> 00:55:59,040 however you know it could be tomorrow 1501 00:56:01,549 --> 00:56:00,359 that there's a whole slew of the 1502 00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:01,559 information comes out to prove it's 1503 00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:04,079 right so who knows I think I'm just 1504 00:56:06,770 --> 00:56:05,700 going to step back from that and go you 1505 00:56:09,230 --> 00:56:06,780 know I'll just wait and see if it 1506 00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:09,240 happens if it just takes one like if 1507 00:56:14,270 --> 00:56:11,760 Roswell is real or whatever then they 1508 00:56:16,809 --> 00:56:14,280 never visit again like if there is a 1509 00:56:20,990 --> 00:56:19,549 if there is a cover-up then you know 1510 00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:21,000 they've got to be lucky all the time 1511 00:56:24,349 --> 00:56:22,559 they've got to make sure they clamp down 1512 00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:24,359 everything that happens all the time and 1513 00:56:29,450 --> 00:56:26,400 we on the other side of it obviously 1514 00:56:31,250 --> 00:56:29,460 gonna be lucky once yeah one case it's 1515 00:56:33,230 --> 00:56:31,260 cracks one case that comes out with 1516 00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:33,240 incontrovertible you know like 1517 00:56:36,829 --> 00:56:35,040 information you just can't knock down 1518 00:56:39,650 --> 00:56:36,839 and that's it and everything else will 1519 00:56:41,410 --> 00:56:39,660 fall down but we're not there yet we're 1520 00:56:45,170 --> 00:56:41,420 relying on you for that gram so 1521 00:57:01,809 --> 00:56:45,180 hopefully that's coming in 55 56. I'm 1522 00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:04,670 I'll grab the link for your book and 1523 00:57:08,030 --> 00:57:06,180 make sure that it's in the description 1524 00:57:10,130 --> 00:57:08,040 of this video for people so that they 1525 00:57:11,809 --> 00:57:10,140 can go grab it 1526 00:57:15,710 --> 00:57:11,819 um yeah 1527 00:57:17,870 --> 00:57:15,720 anything else on your mind anything else 1528 00:57:21,109 --> 00:57:17,880 that you got coming up or working on or 1529 00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:21,119 anything like that yeah I'm sort of in 1530 00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:23,760 the early throes of going through some 1531 00:57:27,530 --> 00:57:26,160 water records again to to um come up 1532 00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:27,540 with a circle for the Foo Fighters book 1533 00:57:31,970 --> 00:57:29,760 so yeah I'll speak over from Foo 1534 00:57:34,130 --> 00:57:31,980 Fighters book wow I'm I'm diving into 1535 00:57:36,049 --> 00:57:34,140 kind of squatted records um from the 1536 00:57:37,549 --> 00:57:36,059 national anthems which which not which 1537 00:57:40,010 --> 00:57:37,559 nobody's ever gone through before you 1538 00:57:41,930 --> 00:57:40,020 know it's incredible what was that 1539 00:57:43,670 --> 00:57:41,940 before about your things where you know 1540 00:57:45,290 --> 00:57:43,680 I'm thinking of this has anybody 1541 00:57:46,549 --> 00:57:45,300 actually done this before it sounds like 1542 00:57:49,390 --> 00:57:46,559 no they haven't 1543 00:57:53,089 --> 00:57:51,470 again it's nothing that's going to set 1544 00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:53,099 the world on fire but it's just more 1545 00:57:57,230 --> 00:57:55,440 information and it's one of these things 1546 00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:57,240 where you do have to build up a bit a 1547 00:58:01,609 --> 00:57:59,520 picture to the point where you know it's 1548 00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:01,619 kind of well look we've got all this 1549 00:58:04,490 --> 00:58:02,880 information that says something was 1550 00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:04,500 happening you know right take it 1551 00:58:08,510 --> 00:58:06,480 seriously and that's all I can that's 1552 00:58:10,609 --> 00:58:08,520 all I can hope to achieve you know in 1553 00:58:13,069 --> 00:58:10,619 what I what I write about 1554 00:58:15,230 --> 00:58:13,079 well it you know like I've said this 1555 00:58:17,630 --> 00:58:15,240 before but I I love your work I love how 1556 00:58:20,569 --> 00:58:17,640 you go about it I love how non-biased 1557 00:58:23,630 --> 00:58:20,579 you are and and how serious you take uh 1558 00:58:26,329 --> 00:58:23,640 that and it really makes for for good 1559 00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:26,339 reading and good information where you 1560 00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,319 can count on it and you can take from it 1561 00:58:32,750 --> 00:58:30,240 what you want without any kind of weird 1562 00:58:35,230 --> 00:58:32,760 spin on it so and I appreciate that so 1563 00:58:37,069 --> 00:58:35,240 good thanks Sean yeah 1564 00:58:39,049 --> 00:58:37,079 thank you thank you for doing the 1565 00:58:42,170 --> 00:58:39,059 forward uh I'd say I appreciate that as 1566 00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:42,180 well my pleasure so hopefully that gets 1567 00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:44,400 you a lot of extra Book Sales just 1568 00:58:49,370 --> 00:58:46,160 because they're real 1569 00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:49,380 so no but I appreciate it and hopefully 1570 00:58:53,589 --> 00:58:51,480 everything goes well with the new place 1571 00:58:56,930 --> 00:58:53,599 and the book and we look forward to 1572 00:59:00,100 --> 00:58:56,940 talking to you soon okay great cheers 1573 00:59:04,750 --> 00:59:00,110 all right bye 1574 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,440 thank you 1575 00:59:08,450 --> 00:59:28,190 [Music]